Windup and fakeout attacks?

[Quantum Space Toaster]

Fromsoft needs to do something about this considering many people have pointed it out, especially for lategame bosses. Its completely unpredictable when some bosses are going to attack no matter how good you are. I don't think it would even be that hard to just quicken the windup part of some animations or slow the attack part, and for the fakeouts just quickening the pause in that part of the attack animation.

[mewlynx]

i think people forgot what learning a boss is like for the first time in these games

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by baelynx:

i think people forgot what learning a boss is like for the first time in these games

To be fair. While we are not in "Darksouls 2 hitboxes" land. We are super duper in "Can shamelessly U turn mid combo or even mid air" land where honest pattern recognition is betrayed constantly.

[Draconic Creature]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by baelynx:

i think people forgot what learning a boss is like for the first time in these games

To be fair. While we are not in "Darksouls 2 hitboxes" land. We are super duper in "Can shamelessly U turn mid combo or even mid air" land where honest pattern recognition is betrayed constantly.

Lack of constant observation seem more the source of the 'betreyal' honestly. There's pretty few attacks iirc that can just instantly turn on a dime, and with most attacks in general you can tell when aggro has been shifted, so long as you're not an idiot clumping together with your summons.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Draconic Creature:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

To be fair. While we are not in "Darksouls 2 hitboxes" land. We are super duper in "Can shamelessly U turn mid combo or even mid air" land where honest pattern recognition is betrayed constantly.

Lack of constant observation seem more the source of the 'betreyal' honestly. There's pretty few attacks iirc that can just instantly turn on a dime, and with most attacks in general you can tell when aggro has been shifted, so long as you're not an idiot clumping together with your summons.

Just mindlessly repeating "Just learn the boss bro" and "lack of observatiob bro" is the same head in the sand mentality that gets people crushed through a wall while doing a gesture puzzle when the giant you ran past circles around a tower to no-clip 3/4 of his body through the tower wall to attack you with their x-ray vision. If you were so good at darksouls why didn't you see that attack coming, after all game is purely skill based bro.

Instead of admitting "Yup, sure is some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in fromsoft games" and letting their instincts think about that too. Too many people are getting suckered by the "tough but fair" sales pitch and getting bent over a table by the jank attacks they refuse to acknowledge are jank.

Hardly a problem unique to fromsoft, but still one that is always shameful to watch people cover for, every time. You want people to "Git Gud", you warn them about reality, not the sales pitch version of a boss fight.

Something you stop to think about when helping hosts in fights.
"Okay guys. the internet keeps screaming even a pet that deals five whole damage is OP because it is a guaranteed distraction for guaranteed safe drinking. that can't be a shameless lie."
*boss switches mid combo against me to U turn and hurtle 70 feet in the opposite direction into drinking host*
"...Well, you see... gosh if only they had learned the boss pattern and been more observant... wait, no. Their problem is trusting people overselling 'pure skill tough but fair' in a videogame running on videogame rules"

[Drey]

Originally posted by A 1998 Toyota Corolla:

Fromsoft needs to do something about this considering many people have pointed it out, especially for lategame bosses. Its completely unpredictable when some bosses are going to attack no matter how good you are. I don't think it would even be that hard to just quicken the windup part of some animations or slow the attack part, and for the fakeouts just quickening the pause in that part of the attack animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geC1VFW9MgU im sure this guy can prove you wrong

[mewlynx]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by baelynx:

i think people forgot what learning a boss is like for the first time in these games

To be fair. While we are not in "Darksouls 2 hitboxes" land. We are super duper in "Can shamelessly U turn mid combo or even mid air" land where honest pattern recognition is betrayed constantly.

imo this thing has always existed to some extent, it's just the combo lengths are pretty extreme in this game, so it's much more noticeable when it happens like 3 times in a row in the same combo. it's still just another thing to learn, but it's just more obnoxious when learning a single combo can take multiple deaths

[Quantum Space Toaster]

Originally posted by baelynx:

i think people forgot what learning a boss is like for the first time in these games

I was doing a Dark Souls 1 playthrough pretty soon before Elden Ring released and I can safely say the bosses in that game are a lot more enjoyable. Their attacks are actually consistent and they don't have those excessive insta kill combos every 4 seconds leaving no room for attacking.

[Wacky (LucentLogan)]

oh nyooo a fromsoft gaem is too hard fwor yweu

[Wacky (LucentLogan)]

Originally posted by I Wish I Was Black:

Originally posted by A 1998 Toyota Corolla:

Fromsoft needs to do something about this considering many people have pointed it out, especially for lategame bosses. Its completely unpredictable when some bosses are going to attack no matter how good you are. I don't think it would even be that hard to just quicken the windup part of some animations or slow the attack part, and for the fakeouts just quickening the pause in that part of the attack animation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geC1VFW9MgU im sure this guy can prove you wrong

exactly this. If someone can do a hitless run then it's clear that everything in the game that you get hit by is your fault.

[chosenxeno]

Feints exist in Combat. That's actually really good.

[Tom]

Something that might help for the long wind up attacks, atleast when it comes to melee weapons, may be to watch the hand and look for the tell that says 'okay NOW im going to attack.' Besides that, yeah there is some BS in the game. Some of it can be annoying but I've yet to encounter any dealbreakers so far.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Wacky (LucentLogan):

Originally posted by I Wish I Was Black:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geC1VFW9MgU im sure this guy can prove you wrong

exactly this. If someone can do a hitless run then it's clear that everything in the game that you get hit by is your fault.

Not entirely true. I agree partially to both sides. It is true there are some bosses with attacks that will literally do a 180 to hit you and you literally can't dodge it via positioning like you can many other cases is BS. This is where positioning lets you get free hits if boss is vulnerable there or at least not take damage without needing to iframe which has been a huge thing for ages and still is for most cases in this game. Completely no dodge runs would be extremely difficult without doing things like parry or other abuses just because of some obviously inconsistent actions. You can totally learn to iframe through it so it isn't like its game breaking but it obviously does buck from the trend of consistent readable boss behavior and certain expectations, especially that first time it happens and you die because they clearly just spun like a top mid air to track you.

I think, OP, that you guys just don't want to learn the timings though. That is something that can be learned and the entire point is for it to punish those who refuse to learn the timings and who rely on "panic roll".

[Aria Athena]

Not gonna lie, there were quite a few instances where the windup just wouldn't end. Are they trying to catch me on my 3rd roll or something?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Not gonna lie, there were quite a few instances where the windup just wouldn't end. Are they trying to catch me on my 3rd roll or something?

More often than not you can smack the boss while they do their big windup, just gotta make sure you are using something with a quick recovery and try not to get too greedy.

[Wacky (LucentLogan)]

So you want them to move at a snail's pace, where they only do 1-2 hit combos where each attack winds up for 10 seconds and has no tracking, like any other genereic rpg game with bosses? I don't know why you even bothered with Elden Ring.