Mahjong -- strategy for winning hands?

[Sammun Mak]

I spent all day learning mahjong. I understand a big part of the strategy is working towards yakus but I'm on the second table at the first parlor and I can very rarely even get a winning hand before someone else does... sometimes they seem to do it in a few moves.

So I wonder if my strategy for which tiles I discard is totally off. Do you guys have tips for that?

edit: This topic was extremely helpful and I hope it can be helpful for other people. One website in particular really clarified a lot of things about riichi mahjong for me (the in-game tutorial is mostly useless). Here they are if you need more info before you can understand this topic:

https://mahjong.guide/a-beginners-guide-to-riichi-mahjong/

[fejota]

Mahjong is mostly luck. It's not unusual that the CPU wins hands very quickly without being able to avoid it.
Regarding how to discard properly, it mostly depends in your starting hand: if you have a yakuhai pair (any dragon or your seat/round 's wind) and want to win a quick hand, you can keep them and call pon to complete a triplet of it and have yaku.
In the riichi hand book, it says that having 3 pairs is not efficient. You can increase the pairs to obtain 7 pairs (chiitoitsu) hand, but it is indeed slow. On the other hand, sequences are more efficient, specially having 2 consecutive numbers like 4,5 bamboo (you can complete the sequence with either 3 or 6 bamboo)

For each tile, there are 4 of it in total. Knowing this and checking the discard pile you can guess how many copies of a desired tile are still in the game.
If the CPU calls riichi, it automatically makes its discards completely safe (due to furiten rule, basically you cannot win a hand if you already discarded that tile) plus the discards from all players from now on, so at least you can abandon your hand and discard safe tiles. It's better to pay the no-ten penalty rather than dealing into a CPUs hand.

So, that being said, all that's left is practice and don't fret if you keep loosing, because as I said, Mahjong is mostly luck.

[Sammun Mak]

I understand my seat's wind but what does the round's wind mean?

So when I draw a hand, let's say I have 2 non-matching dragons or a seat/round wind, what do I do with those tiles? Do I hold on to them as long as possible to get a yaku?

Ok so hold on, if I pon then I can put aside 3 winds or 3 dragons, but then how can I have a "winning hand" if I no longer have 14 cards in my hand? Does it just mean I have to complete the rest of the hand as if those open pon'd cards were still in my hand? If that's the case, it doesn't really seem like I'll win the round any faster.

Yeah I understand that there are more options for a straight than a match. I'll focus on sequences.

Good tip on just playing safe hands.

I don't mind losing over and over, I just want to finish the PTH quests. I spent hours today losing at medium and then won hard on my first try, go figure. I know my play is *incredibly* poor so I am just looking to get good enough to win the quests. It'll get frustrating if I have to spend days just playing mahjong.

[Legato Bluesummers]

Let's say your seat wind is East and the round win is East, and you get a set of East winds, that's a double wind which is 2 han. So always try to grab a double wind if you can. edit: just to be clear, there's a Wind designation next to your Name and Points, this is your seat wind. The table wind designation is in the middle of the table above the table dora. It will almost always say East 1. table wind only changes per round. If you play a "half" round you'll never see it go to South 2. If you play a "full" round you should see this happen.

I'll just say after about 15 hours or so of playing mahjong, this is unlike the other Yakuza games. The other games you'd typically run into one table that just had your number whereas the other tables could be dominated for the most part. You'd be lucky if you had to play a single table 5 times to come out on top. This one, no matter what table you're on, it's really just about luck. Some rounds you just get crapped on and then you'll hit it big. So, whatever algorithms they were using they must have changed them. Mahjong in Y7 is almost entirely down to patience. Make sure your Rules are set correctly (this is extremely important!!!!)
Game Style should be default half. This really should be Quarter, idk why they called it half. a "half" game style (aka round) will last until one full seat wind rotation. East is the dealer. So if you're the dealer, it has to go around and then pass you. So if i'm the dealer, the table wind goes around and comes back on me and I just keep winning, the game will continue until someone runs out of chips.

Kuitan should be ON, this is whether or not you can go out on a hand of simples. You want this ON to make your life easier. But be aware the CPU exploits the ♥♥♥♥ out of this too. I leave it on because I would rather have a fast out available to me.

Two Han Minimum should be OFF. Unless you're a crazy person, it's difficult to win hands when it's 2 han min, CPU has no problem doing this, you might struggle mightily with this on.

Red Dora should be ON. This is the single most important rule to turn on. You can rack up serious han with this on. you can turn crap hands into Mangan and up.

[Legato Bluesummers]

i just want to share this amazing b.s. that I'm sitting through. The guy to my right decides to JACK MOVE the very tile I need to go out. He gets a Baiman 16k points off of this. It was the very last hand before I was winning. If I would have got this tile, it would have been over and I would have been at the top of the table. Now I gotta do it all over again. This 11th hour ♥♥♥♥ seems to happen dozens of times. As soon as I get into Tenpai (only 1 tile left for a hand) there's at least one riichi on the very next turn.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2302356811

[Terra]

Първоначално публикувано от Legato Bluesummers:

i just want to share this amazing b.s. that I'm sitting through. The guy to my right decides to JACK MOVE the very tile I need to go out. He gets a Baiman 16k points off of this. It was the very last hand before I was winning. If I would have got this tile, it would have been over and I would have been at the top of the table. Now I gotta do it all over again. This 11th hour ♥♥♥♥ seems to happen dozens of times. As soon as I get into Tenpai (only 1 tile left for a hand) there's at least one riichi on the very next turn.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2302356811

Now you know why people get stabbed in Mahjong parlours.

[Mazdalopitek]

I have a question: Dora is the tile displayed on the center + 1 , right?
For example, if there's a 3 bamboo, then Dora is 4 bamboo?

[Legato Bluesummers]

Първоначално публикувано от Mazdalopitek:

I have a question: Dora is the tile displayed on the center + 1 , right?
For example, if there's a 3 bamboo, then Dora is 4 bamboo?

yes. when you get the splash screen whenever someone wins, it shows the correct dora as a tile, so it gets kind of confusing. Just as an aside, you'll notice that the table Dora is actually a row stacked on top of another row. If you call riichi, you'll also get the tile underneath, known as the Ura Dora, which functions the same way as the top row Dora.

The winds work the same way; I have a simple mnemonic for remember directions. Never Eat Sour Watermelon -> North, East, South, West. This works in the same way for the dora. If there's a North dora visible, then East is the dora tile. N -> E -> S -> W -> N, etc.

Dragon dora is simple to remember for me because of an old Bush song, Green to Red, Machinehead. Green -> Red -> White -> Green, etc.

[Mazdalopitek]

Първоначално публикувано от Legato Bluesummers:

Първоначално публикувано от Mazdalopitek:

I have a question: Dora is the tile displayed on the center + 1 , right?
For example, if there's a 3 bamboo, then Dora is 4 bamboo?

yes. when you get the splash screen whenever someone wins, it shows the correct dora as a tile, so it gets kind of confusing. Just as an aside, you'll notice that the table Dora is actually a row stacked on top of another row. If you call riichi, you'll also get the tile underneath, known as the Ura Dora, which functions the same way as the top row Dora.

The winds work the same way; I have a simple mnemonic for remember directions. Never Eat Sour Watermelon -> North, East, South, West. This works in the same way for the dora. If there's a North dora visible, then East is the dora tile. N -> E -> S -> W -> N, etc.

Dragon dora is simple to remember for me because of an old Bush song, Green to Red, Machinehead. Green -> Red -> White -> Green, etc.

Thanks so much for your answer.
So if I have a duo of east wind, my seat wind is east and the tile displayed is a north wind, then i can finish with 2 han ?

[OnlyOffensive]

this game is too hard, can someone explain 2 things to me. What does tile in the center, i don't think tutorial covers it. And is there ever a point of collecting chi pon and kan? I did it several times but it never works, do i need to have empty hand for it to count?

[fejota]

Първоначално публикувано от Mazdalopitek:

Първоначално публикувано от Legato Bluesummers:

yes. when you get the splash screen whenever someone wins, it shows the correct dora as a tile, so it gets kind of confusing. Just as an aside, you'll notice that the table Dora is actually a row stacked on top of another row. If you call riichi, you'll also get the tile underneath, known as the Ura Dora, which functions the same way as the top row Dora.

The winds work the same way; I have a simple mnemonic for remember directions. Never Eat Sour Watermelon -> North, East, South, West. This works in the same way for the dora. If there's a North dora visible, then East is the dora tile. N -> E -> S -> W -> N, etc.

Dragon dora is simple to remember for me because of an old Bush song, Green to Red, Machinehead. Green -> Red -> White -> Green, etc.

Thanks so much for your answer.
So if I have a duo of east wind, my seat wind is east and the tile displayed is a north wind, then i can finish with 2 han ?

Yep, the dora is bonus points (but not yaku). You can win a hand as long as you got yaku. In your example you have two already: a triplet of your seat's wind + a triplet of the round's win.

Първоначално публикувано от OnlyOffensive:

this game is too hard, can someone explain 2 things to me. What does tile in the center, i don't think tutorial covers it. And is there ever a point of collecting chi pon and kan? I did it several times but it never works, do i need to have empty hand for it to count?

If you are a beginner, try to win with closed hands only (riichi). As I said earlier, your hand must contain a yaku in order to win, so calling everything could lead to a yaku-less hand.
We talked in this thread about the titles in the center: they serve as the dora indicator.

[Kak]

Първоначално публикувано от fejota:

If you are a beginner, try to win with closed hands only (riichi). As I said earlier, your hand must contain a yaku in order to win, so calling everything could lead to a yaku-less hand.

Yeah, stealing tiles outside of a ron is generally a bad choice unless you know for a fact that you can make a winning hand with it (and even then, it's risky).

[Sammun Mak]

Legato, you have been incredibly helpful!

I still have the question of, I don't understand what it means to win hands if you've already done pon, chi, or kan. Is a winning hand with 3 dragons pon'd the same as a winning hand with the 3 dragons still in your hand?

Първоначално публикувано от OnlyOffensive:

this game is too hard, can someone explain 2 things to me. What does tile in the center, i don' think tutorial covers it. And is there ever a point of collecting chi pon and kan? I did it several times but it never works, do i need to have empty hand for it to count?

The tile in the center shows you the dora. You get a dora by having the tile AFTER the tile shown in the center. So if it's a 3 of those poker chips, you need a 4 of those poker chips in your hand to get dora. Also just FYI, dora does not count as a yaku even though it is extra han.

[fejota]

Първоначално публикувано от Sammun Mak:

Legato, you have been incredibly helpful!

I still have the question of, I don't understand what it means to win hands if you've already done pon, chi, or kan. Is a winning hand with 3 dragons pon'd the same as a winning hand with the 3 dragons still in your hand?

There are yaku that give less han when your hand is opened, like straight (itsuu) or 3 colored runs (sanshoku) and other that can be only achieved with a closed / concealed hand (riichi, ippatsu, tsumo, etc.).
Yakuhai (dragon and guest winds) is worth the same points regardless your hand being opened or not.
So when would you open your hand and when not? The easy answer is that if your hand doesn't have a yaku (or a potential yaku like having a pair of dragons) it's better to keep it closed so you can riichi.

EDIT: having a closed triplet of dragons it's worth more fu than an opened one. Fu is a very advanced concept (I don't know how to calculate it) and only considered if a hand is less points than mangan (5 han). Fu could make a hand mangan with 4 han or less. But as I said, it's better to leave it to the CPU to calculate it for you. I always do that.
http://arcturus.su/wiki/Fu
http://arcturus.su/wiki/Japanese_mahjong_scoring_rules

[Legato Bluesummers]

I think fejota covered it pretty well, I'll just give you a few examples of what I do; keep in mind I'm no grand master at Mahjong but I've been pretty successful at Yakuza Mahjong.

First thing I do is really look at my hand to decide what I'm doing. if i've got 5 pairs of tiles, I'm going for 7 pairs, no matter what draws I get. I decide this early and I don't change my mind, I've found this to be important for making big hands. However, let's say I've got a chance to get 3 color straights, i have 789 bamboo, 789 circles and 78 of characters. All I need is a 9 to get the big hand, but If an out is available via a 6 of characters, I'll take it depending on if anyone was reached or how many tiles are left to be played (there's a counter in the middle of the table that's nice to keep an eye on for making decisions)

aside from trying to determine the route I'll take the first thing is I check my honor tiles (winds and dragons), i immediately discard any single winds that aren't my seat wind or table wind. Let's say I'm on the hard table and my opponents are calling riichi left and right, I'm looking for fast hands. If I get 2 of the seat or table wind, it's on. I'm stealing everything. If I have 2 dragon tiles, it's on, I'm stealing everything. But it's smart to try and rack up more han because just getting a riichi hand with nothing else will net you less than being in Tenpai. (Tenpai is the state of having one tile left to complete a hand, you'll notice that if the round results in a draw you sometimes gain or lose chips. This is because you have to payout everyone that's in tenpai or you get paid if you are in tenpai, i think it's a total of 3000 pts)

This leads me to make my final suggestion when chasing fast hands.
You want to study the first few hands that it details in the options menu. No Points Hand (pinfu), All Simples (tan'yaochuu), Identical Sequences (iipeikou), All Triplets (toitoi), Mixed Outside Hand (chanta) and a Full Straight.

So just as an example, All Simples should be easy to get without too much thought, you just make sure you don't have sets that have a 1 or 9 in them.

Mixed Outside Hand requires all melds to have a 1 or 9 in them, so it's kind of the opposite and easy to remember. But absolutely keep an eye out for the All Triplet hand, it's one of the easiest 2 han open hands to nab.

And just always play smart with Dora. If I have a 234 of bamboo and a regular 5 bamboo comes up, I check the table to see if I'm ok with dropping the 2 of bamboo (early game should be safe enough to just drop it, late game check the damn table to see if someone else has dropped it especially those in riichi) then I drop it and pick up the 5. why? because I may get a red dora 5 of bamboo later that I can drop the regular 5. So keep in mind that the 5's have 2 red doras on them and alwasy be on the lookout to exploit them. The CPU does not seem to recognize red dora tiles. They routinely drop them, so you can exploit red dora for huge returns.

[fejota]

I'm not a Mahjong expert either, just a player that loves the game and has experience with digital mahjong. By default, open tanyao and red dora are disabled in this game, so it's better to enable it.
Memorizing a few yaku can be golden at the begining: tanyao (all simples), yakuhai, toi toi (or all triplets hand. As legato said, it's very good yaku because it's worth 2han and you can make it with an opened hand), etc.
Having isolated honor tiles (winds and dragons) are not worth much (you cannot make sequences of honors) so it's best to discard them early, specially if you play against humans (because an honor that is not in anyone's discards pile makes it very risky at latter part of the hand. It could be the one somebody is waiting on).
In my opinion, the charm of this game is to be able to read your initial hand and what do you want to make it while you read your oponents intentions (a simple example is somebody discarding numbered tiles of characters and bamboo but no circles. You can guess that he is aiming at hon/chin itsu. Honitsu: one kind of numbered tile + honors. Chinitsu: only one kind of numbered tiles without any honors). Yep, it's not something that can be mastered easy and also ♥♥♥♥ happens.