Knights of the Chalice 2

Knights of the Chalice 2

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Every non-caster shall be given access to Wade
Let's be realistic, this game has horrible balance on high difficulty, and on archmage class selection is very limited because of how hard the game is. Just give Wade to every meleer so we have more choice than playing a mantis monk or a wade figher plz.
Last edited by papiko; Apr 7 @ 4:48am
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
night4 Apr 5 @ 2:18pm 
If you think all the other non-caster classes need Wade In, you're doing it wrong.

Fortunately, what you want will never happen.
papiko Apr 6 @ 6:28pm 
Originally posted by night4:
If you think all the other non-caster classes need Wade In, you're doing it wrong.

Fortunately, what you want will never happen.

Making suggestion doesn't means this won't be added later. If you think they don't need wade in, prove it. Make a party of 6 paladin, and beat the archmage ironman game. Otherwise stop trolling.
Last edited by papiko; Apr 6 @ 9:11pm
night4 Apr 6 @ 8:18pm 
I don't need to "prove" anything. You're obviously just upset you can't make some classes work for you and are taking it out on the game and/or anyone.

But since you've instantly resorted to repeated name calling and necroing discussions from over 2 years ago in another thread, I'm forced to block you.
papiko Apr 6 @ 11:47pm 
Originally posted by night4:
I don't need to "prove" anything. You're obviously just upset you can't make some classes work for you and are taking it out on the game and/or anyone.

But since you've instantly resorted to repeated name calling and necroing discussions from over 2 years ago in another thread, I'm forced to block you.

I'm appreciated that you block me because I don't wish to see a trolling ppl discussing under my thread.

As for your point that I'm upset because some class doesn't work, you are either blind or ignorant because there's already a lot discussion about how the hardest difficulty can only be beaten by certain team because the balance of class is terrible.
Completely against this idea. Other warrior classes can move and disable an enemy with a Greater Trip or something similar, and then the next round they get their full attack. Wade In... honestly I don't see it being all that spectacular at Level 9, the other warrior classes are competitive then. If anything, Wade In is something Fighter and Monk need to be competitive much later with the others that have better damage, bulk, or versatility.
Mauman Apr 7 @ 6:14pm 
I wouldn't say every melee class needs wade. Barbarian is perfectly functional without it for instance.

I will say I have always believed that Swashbuckler should have been given wade, and it's a shame that didn't happen.
papiko Apr 7 @ 7:37pm 
Originally posted by Mauman:
I wouldn't say every melee class needs wade. Barbarian is perfectly functional without it for instance.

I will say I have always believed that Swashbuckler should have been given wade, and it's a shame that didn't happen.

It is critical to be able to do nova damage to enemies so you can reduce their members or at least CC them at first round, Barb can be build as a CCer, grapple or knock down enemies, and they have a spirit that grant pounce so they are fine without wade-in.

That's the reason why they are tier just behind fighter and monk. Other martial are just trash compare to these 3.

If my dual greatsword fighter can wade-in and kill enemies instantly, why do I need a paladin who is still buffinig himself or can only attack once after move? Classes need to be rebalanced.

On lower difficulty every class might be okay, but on archmage, it's very very important to kill enemies before they kill you, so why paladin or whatever class who can't wade-in or worse at CC?
Last edited by papiko; Apr 7 @ 7:41pm
papiko Apr 8 @ 1:19am 
Fighter:
Damage Focus: +2 bonus to damage with all weapons. Requires: Fighter Level 4

Paladin:
Powerful Smite: The damage bonus on smite attacks increases by two points. Requires: Death Knight or Paladin.

XD such balanced feat choices.
>_o May 3 @ 2:24pm 
Is it an issue with this game or with the latest D&D?
night4 May 3 @ 3:46pm 
Originally posted by >_o:
Is it an issue with this game or with the latest D&D?

It's not an issue in this game at all.

And this game isn't the "latest" D&D, it's based on 3.5 but a pretty heavily modified version of it.

At any rate, 3.5 does have ways of allowing a Full Attack after movement, they're just mostly not in this game, and Wade In is apparently an alternative to that.
Mauman May 8 @ 8:40pm 
Originally posted by night4:
Originally posted by >_o:
Is it an issue with this game or with the latest D&D?

It's not an issue in this game at all.

And this game isn't the "latest" D&D, it's based on 3.5 but a pretty heavily modified version of it.

At any rate, 3.5 does have ways of allowing a Full Attack after movement, they're just mostly not in this game, and Wade In is apparently an alternative to that.
I mean, pounce exists. Pounce can be a real pain in this game however due to how much terrain is factored in this game.

Really though, Wade in is more like spring attack than pounce. If spring attack took a combination of meth, cocaine, and steroids that is.
The1Kobra May 16 @ 10:36am 
Barbarian with one of the animal totems (I think it's Jaguar? Can't remember off-hand which it is) Can do a charge and get their full attack that round. It's not quite as good as Wade In since you can't re-maneuver and pick a new target, but it's good enough in most cases.

Ranger doesn't necessarily need it because you don't need Wade In for an archer character. Rangers in Knights of the Chalice are sort of stuck in the archery role, rather than the dual wielding they can choose to focus on in regular D&D.

But for the others? Wade In is a VERY powerful feat. Enough so that I designed my party's front-liners around it, that or made them archer builds. Mage Knight and Bard can make surprisingly good archers.
But if they don't have Wade In, do the other classes have things to help? Fighter gets a ton of extra feats, and Monks get a lot of bonuses too, especially if you do a multi-weapon fighting mantis monk, who can no joke get about 19 attacks per round, and have Wade In.

Gladiator, Death Knight, Samurai Champion, Storm Warrior, Bard, Mage Knight, Paladin, Psychic Warrior, Rogue

Gladiator honestly just seems disappointing all around. Even disregarding Wade In, it's not as good as a Fighter. Including Wade In? Fighter is in every way better.

Samurai is in a similar position to Gladiator. Just a weaker version of Fighter, and has no Wade In. Samurai is just worse than Fighter. They're less flexible too since their options are more restricted too, since they lose a lot of class features if they use a shield or dual wield.

Death Knight is in an interesting place. The Aura of Dread means they're a good support for your party's casters. They also get smites, life drain, so they have some options other than full attacks. They also have sneak attacks, which mean that if you DO position them right, they can do a lot of damage. Of course, getting a position to get sneak attacks is difficult, but if they had Wade In, it would be a lot easier, possibly too easy to get them. Wade In might be too strong for Death Knights.

Bards don't work like 3e bards. They do have the song party buffs and debuffs, which is very useful. I find that Bards work best for archery builds, you can sing and buff/debuff, and if they focus on DEX then the fact that they can only use light armor without feat buffs isn't such a problem. Sing and Shoot, and your bard is good to go.

Mage Knights I find are in a similar position to Bards. Light armor only, mage casting instead of the songs, but they do have feats that cause flaming/etc weapons to do more damage, bows included. So a Mage Knight can also make a pretty good archer build.

I do at least find that if you want a standard melee Mage Knight, Champion, or Storm Warrior, the casting can definitely make up for the lack of Wade In. All three of these classes would be a lot more powerful if they could pre-buff before fights, and usually in this game, you don't get the opening to. Still, if they use their magic well, they can definitely help on that score. Champion has a lot of heals/restoratives. Storm Warrior with an electric bow can make a good archer build. Champion has a plethora of nice spells to cast, so it's not a waste using them. Wade In would honestly make Champions too powerful, I think. Having full BAB, full armor/weapon proficiencies, and up to L7 divine casting is a lot.

Psychic Warrior I find is generally a bit clunky to handle, you need to be aware of the powers you pick and the combos you make. It's only got 3/4 BAB too. Thing is though, Psychic Warrior with some power combinations mean that it can be the best grappler you can make in the game, if you use Grip of Iron and Expansion. That alone makes up for not having Wade In.

Paladin: I'll admit, I tended not to find Paladin too great. They don't have a lot of the goodies Death Knights get, and the spellcasting just makes them a weaker Champion. I'm not terribly impressed by Paladins in KoTC.

And finally Rogue, especially if you go Swashbuckler. Sneak Attack plus Wade In as I mentioned in Death Knight can be a very powerful combo. Still, Rogues require you to have tactical advantage to make them work well. If you don't have that, which is most of the time, another class is often better. And if you do have tactical advantage, you often don't need the rogue's sneak attacks or other tricks. There's no hide/move silently in KoTC either so they can't pull off stealth shinnanegans, which greatly weakens the combat utility of rogues.

So, all in all, I think that Gladiator and Samurai should be first in the queue for getting Wade In. Maybe the other classes after? Would take more thought. At the very least though, at current Fighter and Monk are the clearly strongest melee classes as is, spreading Wade In like features would help make the other classes more able to keep up.
Last edited by The1Kobra; May 20 @ 9:43am
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