I love the new update. BUT...

[Legatron17]

Why in the world was the whiplash nerfed? Literally nobody asked for this, and I think that I speak for mostly everyone when I say that this is not a change that improved Ultrakill's gameplay. Making a tool that is as useful as the whiplash SEVERLY punish you for simply using it is just ridiculous and bad game design.

I remember how happy everyone was when it first came out, no one had any complaints about it, nor did anyone think it was overpowered, let alone think that it should PUNISH you for using it. Now that optimism about the whiplash is gone. I can UNDERSTAND if you think that you heal too EASILY from the whiplash, but why not just reduce the amount of health you gain from the whiplash? For example, you could make a whiplashed enemy heal you 50% less for the next 3 seconds after the whiplash has been let go from said enemy, which would be a completely understandable solution to the "healing is too easy" problem, a problem that already very few people even have. But PLEASE leave the annoying hard damage out of it.

For me, as someone who has almost clocked in 200 hours in the game, the whiplash getting nerfed into oblivion is the most disappointing change that has been made to the game, perhaps even the ONLY disappointing change that this game even received. But it's a big one, and for me personally, made the game a lot less fun to play by hindering the player's movement to such an insane degree.

There are fun ways to make a game more difficult, and then there are annoying ways. Unfortunately, this is an extremely annoying attempt at making the game harder.

I know Hakita listens to his community, and I am hopeful that he'll reverse the change after enough people share their thoughts on it. A few last words, though;

"If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por JayJay:

the discord inner cirlce seems to just say "git gud" to any criticism, so i doubt the change is going to be reverted. oh well.

This is why gamers don't deserve rights.

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

Publicado originalmente por Thalq:

Green gatling burst is still really strong as well, imo weapons are really well balanced and whiplash didn't need such a strong nerf.

I also don't mind hard damage I just think it is wayyyyyy overtuned. It should punish whiplash spam, not whiplash usage itself, and thus should be applied from consecutive hooks. I think that change overall wasn't given enough thought before implementation.

the whiplash nerf and style change have been brewing for at least, over a month, and they still feel like they didn't have enough time in the oven

Literally the entire update felt like Hakita forgot he was cooking in the kitchen and ran in like a mad dash to look at the game with the whiplash in it and go like "OH EGADS! MY GAME IS RUINED!" and at the last fives seconds went to order fast food (get previous content) and disguise it as his own cooking (lampshade as new content.) (ho ho ho, delightly devilish Hakita!).

I'm saying it feels like nothing new, and we waited like what, a year for this?
5 levels? And the secret and prime levels arent even finished yet? What is going on over there?

[skylex157]

Publicado originalmente por Knee Co.:

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

death of the author my friend, players find enjoyment in different things and the author intentions may not be what connected with the audience, the full sandbox playstyle that has been brewing for years was fundamentally changed, the dev's idea of the game should be respected but it can also be critiziced, the game now feels a lot more like doom eternal, a puzzle game with priority targeting and movement management rather than the free-style sandbox everyone was praising it to be

it would have been easy to include assists to revert those changes and yet he didn't and people are pissed because the game that they have been playing and enjoying for a long time quite literally doesn't exist anymore, as there is no way to replicate 1 to 1 the experience

why is the experience impossible to replicate? because you have to go to lower difficulties, with worse AI, 200 max health and no hard damage what so ever, which is nothing like standard or violent, you have to use the hard damage cheat, which also blocks hard damage that was earned fairly through taking damage and that everyone thought was alright, which ends up making the game less tense or, like i did, have to go to a prior version to continue playing their singleplayer game as they please

the problem has never been the difficulty with this changes, it is the tedium and the lesser enjoyment they bring, this nerfs where made only thinking on the hardcores that absolutely abuse the whip without taking in mind all the people who loved to use it and it is nerfed in such a crude way that it punishes even using the whip instead of the intended over use of it

most people think the outrage of the fans as "now we can't get free P ranks, we angy now" instead of "i was enjoying that mechanic and i can no longer enjoy it in my forever singleplayer free-style game"

in my case, i was already playing with all my weapons all the time so i don't even feel the style changes, i'm still always at SS or up and never had a wapon reach stale once, but for some people, their playstyles are ruined and feel like they need to change the way they fundamentally approach the game because the dev wanted to after literal years of not forcing any mechanic on us

The game is in early access still so players knew what they were getting into. Early access games can change drastically depending on what happens, and I guess you could say thats the case for this? People will always complain about something changing and I understand its a pity the casual player cant enjoy this, but there will always be another game to fill that gap, players can come back at some point in the future, this could always be changed as well.

The dev can take criticism and do as he pleases with it, I do agree its good to give feedback, and I too think the nerf is a little drastic, but not unwelcomed. I'm sure it will get re-balanced at some point as again, this game is in early access which people seem to forget the meaning of since so many games abuse that now days. I still think everyone is over reacting thinking this is the end of the game for them and that they can no longer enjoy it when the game is still a WIP, not everything is final, updates come with time, especially for this game. :te_hand:

if he ever uses that "it's early access" excuse by himself, he would be lucky that i have more than 2 hours on ultrakill in steam because i wouldn't want to help a game designer that thinks throwing the casual fun under the bus because of a hardcore minority without any way to revert it is good desing, he literally changed a free-style sandbox to feel more like doom eternal, who's motto is "if the player's play in a way we don't want to, we kill them"

there is no revert on style or whip, and that made the game so unenjoyable for some that they literally quit, and using a "early access" excuse would change my mind from "he made an oopsie, it can be fixed" to "this person is an idiot and only stumbled into an excellent game"

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por Knee Co.:

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

you are missing the point, we don't want to play the game like the dev want, we want ultrakill to be a sandbox still, this changes don't incentivize playing better, they punish you for playing "the wrong way", and that damages the enjoyment some get from the game, some people want the funny hook, not to P rank the game and brag about how they defeated minos with coin toss only

The dev has a vision for the game, and it should be respected. Not everything needs to be tailored to the players extent. He said (or so I was told) that he's making this game to be the game he's always wanted, putting everything he loves about shooters into one game.

There is also easier difficulties too, and assist you can turn on to turn off hard damage. If you don't care about rankings you get on the levels then turning on assist shouldn't be an issue for you.

Okay but I do care about the ranks cause I want to play all the content I payed for with out needing it to be a joyless slog, which unlocking Prime levels is now like.

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

Publicado originalmente por Knee Co.:

The game is in early access still so players knew what they were getting into. Early access games can change drastically depending on what happens, and I guess you could say thats the case for this? People will always complain about something changing and I understand its a pity the casual player cant enjoy this, but there will always be another game to fill that gap, players can come back at some point in the future, this could always be changed as well.

The dev can take criticism and do as he pleases with it, I do agree its good to give feedback, and I too think the nerf is a little drastic, but not unwelcomed. I'm sure it will get re-balanced at some point as again, this game is in early access which people seem to forget the meaning of since so many games abuse that now days. I still think everyone is over reacting thinking this is the end of the game for them and that they can no longer enjoy it when the game is still a WIP, not everything is final, updates come with time, especially for this game. :te_hand:

if he ever uses that "it's early access" excuse by himself, he would be lucky that i have more than 2 hours on ultrakill in steam because i wouldn't want to help a game designer that thinks throwing the casual fun under the bus because of a hardcore minority without any way to revert it is good desing, he literally changed a free-style sandbox to feel more like doom eternal, who's motto is "if the player's play in a way we don't want to, we kill them"

there is no revert on style or whip, and that made the game so unenjoyable for some that they literally quit, and using a "early access" excuse would change my mind from "he made an oopsie, it can be fixed" to "this person is an idiot and only stumbled into an excellent game"

You are incredibly based and brave with that last paragraph and I stand by you on that sentiment 101%

When he said "NO." to the community giving him direct feedback on his changes being objectively ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bad, the arrogance exuding from his discord post radiated so much ego. Gross.

[skylex157]

Publicado originalmente por Cozy:

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

the whiplash nerf and style change have been brewing for at least, over a month, and they still feel like they didn't have enough time in the oven

Literally the entire update felt like Hakita forgot he was cooking in the kitchen and ran in like a mad dash to look at the game with the whiplash in it and go like "OH EGADS! MY GAME IS RUINED!" and at the last fives seconds went to order fast food (get previous content) and disguise it as his own cooking (lampshade as new content.) (ho ho ho, delightly devilish Hakita!).

I'm saying it feels like nothing new, and we waited like what, a year for this?
5 levels? And the secret and prime levels arent even finished yet? What is going on over there?

the hook and style changes have been thought out at least a month ago, there is a tweet of him explaining the future mechanic changes
i don't want to say he has been slacking or anything like that, my problem isn't with the new content itself, it is with the 180 degrees change on game philosophy

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

Publicado originalmente por Cozy:

Literally the entire update felt like Hakita forgot he was cooking in the kitchen and ran in like a mad dash to look at the game with the whiplash in it and go like "OH EGADS! MY GAME IS RUINED!" and at the last fives seconds went to order fast food (get previous content) and disguise it as his own cooking (lampshade as new content.) (ho ho ho, delightly devilish Hakita!).

I'm saying it feels like nothing new, and we waited like what, a year for this?
5 levels? And the secret and prime levels arent even finished yet? What is going on over there?

the hook and style changes have been thought out at least a month ago, there is a tweet of him explaining the future mechanic changes
i don't want to say he has been slacking or anything like that, my problem isn't with the new content itself, it is with the 180 degrees change on game philosophy

Early Access strikes again, hooks you in with a fantastic premise and great road map.

Then something happens, someone's head gets too inflated with a god complex and they think their infallible and that their design is law. And the final product comes out a complete utter mess.

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por Knee Co.:

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

death of the author my friend, players find enjoyment in different things and the author intentions may not be what connected with the audience, the full sandbox playstyle that has been brewing for years was fundamentally changed, the dev's idea of the game should be respected but it can also be critiziced, the game now feels a lot more like doom eternal, a puzzle game with priority targeting and movement management rather than the free-style sandbox everyone was praising it to be

it would have been easy to include assists to revert those changes and yet he didn't and people are pissed because the game that they have been playing and enjoying for a long time quite literally doesn't exist anymore, as there is no way to replicate 1 to 1 the experience

why is the experience impossible to replicate? because you have to go to lower difficulties, with worse AI, 200 max health and no hard damage what so ever, which is nothing like standard or violent, you have to use the hard damage cheat, which also blocks hard damage that was earned fairly through taking damage and that everyone thought was alright, which ends up making the game less tense or, like i did, have to go to a prior version to continue playing their singleplayer game as they please

the problem has never been the difficulty with this changes, it is the tedium and the lesser enjoyment they bring, this nerfs where made only thinking on the hardcores that absolutely abuse the whip without taking in mind all the people who loved to use it and it is nerfed in such a crude way that it punishes even using the whip instead of the intended over use of it

most people think the outrage of the fans as "now we can't get free P ranks, we angy now" instead of "i was enjoying that mechanic and i can no longer enjoy it in my forever singleplayer free-style game"

in my case, i was already playing with all my weapons all the time so i don't even feel the style changes, i'm still always at SS or up and never had a wapon reach stale once, but for some people, their playstyles are ruined and feel like they need to change the way they fundamentally approach the game because the dev wanted to after literal years of not forcing any mechanic on us

The game is in early access still so players knew what they were getting into. Early access games can change drastically depending on what happens, and I guess you could say thats the case for this? People will always complain about something changing and I understand its a pity the casual player cant enjoy this, but there will always be another game to fill that gap, players can come back at some point in the future, this could always be changed as well.

The dev can take criticism and do as he pleases with it, I do agree its good to give feedback, and I too think the nerf is a little drastic, but not unwelcomed. I'm sure it will get re-balanced at some point as again, this game is in early access which people seem to forget the meaning of since so many games abuse that now days. I still think everyone is over reacting thinking this is the end of the game for them and that they can no longer enjoy it when the game is still a WIP, not everything is final, updates come with time, especially for this game. :te_hand:

Paltry offerings for the amount of time it took to come out compared to how short everything was.

[cswish72]

After the nerf, I almost never use the whiplash. My reason why is every time I go to use it I think "this will hurt me" so it causes me to never really use it.

[DaCat001]

cope and seethe
people like you who complain constantly about the nerf are the reason it was nerfed in the first place, because you relied on it too much

[skylex157]

Publicado originalmente por DaDude001:

cope and seethe
people like you who complain constantly about the nerf are the reason it was nerfed in the first place, because you relied on it too much

you are missing the point, read the discussion we had here before saying "you want whip because you bad", please

[Cozy]

Publicado originalmente por DaDude001:

cope and seethe
people like you who complain constantly about the nerf are the reason it was nerfed in the first place, because you relied on it too much

And people like you are why this community is insufferable and think most Ultrakill fans are a circle jerk. Incapable of holding a conversation and instead every argument you think you can shoot down with two words.
You don't look smart. You look pathetic.

[Winter]

The update hasn't changed the way I use the Whiplash 90% of the time.

[Plumber]

after playing around with the update more, comparing my style of play to a close friend's, I've found that the whiplash nerfs aren't affecting my efficacy at all - but as others have pointed out, the psychological aspect of how punishing it can be when misused is what has changed. The crux of my posts from a few days ago remains - it's a tool.
I was able to use it as aggressively as usual after conditioning myself to check the style meter. It remains a supreme bullying option for Virtues and Malicious Faces, and ringing enemies out by pulling them offstage is still very safe. In fewer words, Whiplash now has a strong and direct correlation between level knowledge and entertainment value.

I glossed over this before, but now I want to reiterate with confidence that every new enemy in this update either requires you to do more than just stick to them to control them or is prone to severely punishing you for approaching or flying around without a gameplan. The enemies and their placement are mechanically resistant to whiplash abuse and thus organically counter it. I also think it's fine that it naturally performs well against the aforementioned Virtues, who look like grapple points as is.

Hard damage buildup when pulling enemies should stay, but I would be interested in seeing how the game would play if chasing enemies with it only gave you hard damage vulnerability while grappling instead, which prevents aggressive use from being penalized outside of high style / full health as long as you don't get hit in the moment - this would be an inversion of the current situation where the nerf doesn't matter as long as you don't get hit afterwards and thus allow for more frequent use. It would also be easier to track whether you've just made a big blunder in using it without focusing on the two healthbars or style meter. "I got hit during whiplash; I'd better back off." I believe it would be easier to make snap decisions or corrections this way.

[SuperTechDragon]

Publicado originalmente por skylex157:

Publicado originalmente por Knee Co.:

I mean if you just play the game good you don't have to worry about hard damage sooooooo :marten_sip:

you are missing the point, we don't want to play the game like the dev want, we want ultrakill to be a sandbox still, this changes don't incentivize playing better, they punish you for playing "the wrong way", and that damages the enjoyment some get from the game, some people want the funny hook, not to P rank the game and brag about how they defeated minos with coin toss only

It annoys me that people keep telling me to "get good" when I say I don't like the changes. I am not worse at the game. I P ranked every level on every difficulty before the update, but guess what. I am still able to do that. The changes haven't made me worse at the game (aside from the short period where I needed to adjust). They just made the game less fun.