Why is style gained from the jackhammer so little?

[Pinesample]

In the current version the jackhammer while fun and effective has one MAJOR ISSUE that I've noticed. You don't get NEARLY as much style from it as you would from the shotgun, especially when you keep in mind projectile boosting. At first I thought this was an issue of me being ass at the game until I went back to shotgun and noticed how much more style I had been getting using it. So yes. The jackhammer has an issue and it's how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ little style you get from it. I am unsure where to post this in but I'll put it as a suggestion because please Mr. Hakita man. Increase style points from the jackhammer. Like, quite a lot.

[Waltnut]

Style points will probably keep getting tweaked up until release. As an example, projectile boost Style Points finally got nerfed.

[Plumber]

Keep in mind that when moving at high speed with it you'll almost always have 2x or higher air/slide bonus so it's got that going for it, but yeah it seems like all of its style checks are from various speed-tiers of kills or for hitting an enemy at maximum speed.

Giving it Projectile Boost (or something equivalent) for cores/rockets you punt with it would make sense to me.

[Pinesample]

Originally posted by Plumber:

Keep in mind that when moving at high speed with it you'll almost always have 2x or higher air/slide bonus so it's got that going for it, but yeah it seems like all of its style checks are from various speed-tiers of kills or for hitting an enemy at maximum speed.

Giving it Projectile Boost (or something equivalent) for cores/rockets you punt with it would make sense to me.

Giving jackhammer some new fancy tech which could grant more style could be nice.
But I also think they should just increase the style gain from hitting enemies to be much higher.

[Waltnut]

I mean, it’s a melee weapon. You hit people with it. Why would it give more style than something like +ULTRARICOSHOT?

The fact it even has 3 different style bonuses is miraculous. Just buffing those a bit should be fine.

[Pinesample]

Originally posted by RubemOne:

I mean, it’s a melee weapon. You hit people with it. Why would it give more style than something like +ULTRARICOSHOT?

The fact it even has 3 different style bonuses is miraculous. Just buffing those a bit should be fine.

I am mostly comparing it to the normal shotgun, which gives WAY MORE style than jackhammer does. Just off the basis of shotgun parrying

[Waltnut]

Totally different weapons. One you punch your own pellets, making them go faster and explode. The other one you just hit people.

I never noticed it’s style points because dealing that much damage and flying away across the whole map seemed worth enough to use over the shotgun.

[Waltnut]

And the Shotgun doesn’t lunge you away from danger for free, like the Impact Hammer. The damage is not even comparable with how easy it is to get red gauge.

[<#76428a>Sharkbilby]

I think the low style gained makes it fair.
Objectively hitting someone with the force of a supernova isn't as cool as creating a gigantic death circle of saws or creating the supernova itself.
And from a balance standpoint it already does more damage than the railcannon with half the cooldown, so it makes sense it should lack something. The close range risk combined with losing lots of style when taking damage encourages you to think about when to rush an enemy.

Plus, when you BIND Q CORRECTLY TO LAST VARIANT INSTEAD OF LAST WEAPON you can still pboost perfectly fine.

[Pinesample]

Originally posted by Sharkbilby:

I think the low style gained makes it fair.
Objectively hitting someone with the force of a supernova isn't as cool as creating a gigantic death circle of saws or creating the supernova itself.
And from a balance standpoint it already does more damage than the railcannon with half the cooldown, so it makes sense it should lack something. The close range risk combined with losing lots of style when taking damage encourages you to think about when to rush an enemy.

Plus, when you BIND Q CORRECTLY TO LAST VARIANT INSTEAD OF LAST WEAPON you can still pboost perfectly fine.

I mainly bring up the small amount of style bonus because of triple jackhammer, it can be painful to use as it can at times feel impossible to P-rank due to crippling low style.
And while you can say the jackhammer is extremely powerful. Which is 100% true. I would also argue the normal shotgun on it's own is as powerful, due to a variety of reasons. Shotgun swapping allows for extremely high damage output, fuse it with projectile boosting and now you have an extremely powerful crowd clearer with also powerful single target with a side of free style points. Both the shotgun and the jackhammer are equally as powerful from a utility and damage perspective. But jackhammer is crippled a bit due to the low style points. Also overall, increasing the style gained would probably not even have a minor impact on the wide majority of players. I doubt much of anyone would really complain. Even than... Are you telling me going mach ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ten and caving a poor innocent husks skull in with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ JACKHAMMER isn't stylish?

[Pinesample]

Originally posted by Pine:

Originally posted by Sharkbilby:

I think the low style gained makes it fair.
Objectively hitting someone with the force of a supernova isn't as cool as creating a gigantic death circle of saws or creating the supernova itself.
And from a balance standpoint it already does more damage than the railcannon with half the cooldown, so it makes sense it should lack something. The close range risk combined with losing lots of style when taking damage encourages you to think about when to rush an enemy.

Plus, when you BIND Q CORRECTLY TO LAST VARIANT INSTEAD OF LAST WEAPON you can still pboost perfectly fine.

I mainly bring up the small amount of style bonus because of triple jackhammer, it can be painful to use as it can at times feel impossible to P-rank due to crippling low style.
And while you can say the jackhammer is extremely powerful. Which is 100% true. I would also argue the normal shotgun on it's own is as powerful, due to a variety of reasons. Shotgun swapping allows for extremely high damage output, fuse it with projectile boosting and now you have an extremely powerful crowd clearer with also powerful single target with a side of free style points. Both the shotgun and the jackhammer are equally as powerful from a utility and damage perspective. But jackhammer is crippled a bit due to the low style points. Also overall, increasing the style gained would probably not even have a minor impact on the wide majority of players. I doubt much of anyone would really complain. Even than... Are you telling me going mach ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ten and caving a poor innocent husks skull in with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ JACKHAMMER isn't stylish?

Hehe I love my unorganized wall of text

[Pinesample]

Ok so I decided to test and my its worse than I thought. I decided to test a level using all shotgun compared to all jack hammer and well
With the shotgun I got a style ranking of 63097, all whilst using other weapons and fancy tech less. Than I went all jackhammer and tried utilizing all the fancy tech I could think of and. I got guess what. 54698, which was below the S rank requirements. Yah no the jackhammer almost 100% needs a boost in style

[Arc]

The new weapons in general have screwy style. Not only does the slam gives next to no style, it also depletes the style gauge almost instantly, struggling to get past C rank unless you're specifically using the green gun on trash (because it gets the majority of its points on kills, but that's the only one that has an AoE)
Ultrarichochet with the core on the blue one doesn't actually give more points (again, unless used v massed trash) than just shooting coin despite being harder to do and shooting it with M1 doesn't give more than rockets despite also being harder to do.

But simply shocking a single enemy 1 time with the red nailgun (not firing M1 at all) is an instant A rank even if you're grounded.

[<#76428a>Sharkbilby]

Originally posted by Pine:

Ok so I decided to test and my its worse than I thought. I decided to test a level using all shotgun compared to all jack hammer and well
With the shotgun I got a style ranking of 63097, all whilst using other weapons and fancy tech less. Than I went all jackhammer and tried utilizing all the fancy tech I could think of and. I got guess what. 54698, which was below the S rank requirements. Yah no the jackhammer almost 100% needs a boost in style

Not every gun needs to be about getting style, and this one specifically has its risk around losing it. Why do you want to undo this design balance and just make it bland?

[Arc]

Getting a lot of style for getting upclose to hit with the melee would be good risk reward; its how shotguns work if you're not projectile boosting. Shotguns give vastly higher return.
There is no design balance to break; its poorly designed and its not balanced.

[<#76428a>Sharkbilby]

Originally posted by Arc:

Getting a lot of style for getting upclose to hit with the melee would be good risk reward; its how shotguns work if you're not projectile boosting. Shotguns give vastly higher return.
There is no design balance to break; its poorly designed and its not balanced.

It does a ton of damage and forces you to get up close, which is a risk of you gaining hard damage for the reward of you doing huge damage. Having it give style would remove the point of the risk.