I think Sawblade Launchers need a nerf.

[BlaixenU]

If you look at the alternate piercer, then its apparent that its designed around being wielded by a more professional player who has incorporated quickswitching into their playstyle to an extent. It seems that the sawblade launchers aim to do this too, trading the requirement of having the nailgun out for extended periods for it to do anything with the gaurantee that your projectiles will deal damage even when you switch away, but I really think that the current way the sawblade launcher works is super unbalanced.

Firstly, the Sawblade launcher works way too well as its own weapon until you run out of ammo. The thing shreds anything that is grounded for pretty much no cost aside from having to switch to the weapon and also place a magnet. If this were a proper 'good for the good, bad for the bad' weapon, then there'd be a downside for new players to use. Piercer has the slower firing rate being an issue if you don't switch off, but the sawblade launcher does somewhat of an easier job hitting grounded targets than the nailgun, with the only issue being airborne enemies like mindflayers.

Secondly, the Sawblade launcher doesn't properly reward using other weapons while the sawtrap does its thing. After using the sawgun for so long, a person can attain the habit of placing down a trap then trying to maximize dps by not only luring enemies into that trap, but also by outputting their own damage via the other weapons in their arsenal. The reason of this is a mix of a lack of necessity and encouragement. The weapon performs so good in a vacuum already that for new players, they can just continue holding m1 and win like that. It doesn't take much skill to use the sawgun effectively with the only exception being magnet placement, but aside from that, all you need to do is place a magnet down, shoot out saws, and now you have whats effectively an AoE screwdriver. Lack of encouragement doesn't aid either, as there's nothing enticing about using another weapon instead of placing down the full sawtrap.

edit: summarized and more straightforward version of my point (added on request):

my post states that among the issues with the launcher is that theres no real incentive to damage more beyond the launcher can output. if, for example, there was something where enemies being damaged from other sources would temporarily make that enemy take more saw damage, i could see that as a great counterweight to a plain damage nerf

I don't have a real solution, and I hope that this post creates a discussion about the balance of this weapon.

My own idea would be that saws' damage would be proportional to the damage you're dealing without the sawgun at that time, however that may be implemented

[SHOCKOUT]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

RandomGuy původně napsal:

Nono thats stupid thats REALLY stupid

skill issue

"If you fire this weapon it takes part of Ur health" no ♥♥♥♥ off

[super 9]

RandomGuy původně napsal:

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

skill issue

"If you fire this weapon it takes part of Ur health" no ♥♥♥♥ off

bad reading comprehension billy

[BlaixenU]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

RandomGuy původně napsal:

"If you fire this weapon it takes part of Ur health" no ♥♥♥♥ off

bad reading comprehension billy

dawg i dont think it requires reading comprehension to realize how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid the idea of "more damage at higher style" is

[super 9]

BlaixenU původně napsal:

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

bad reading comprehension billy

dawg i dont think it requires reading comprehension to realize how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid the idea of "more damage at higher style" is

bad reading comprehension blaixen
can you read my post again

[SHOCKOUT]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

BlaixenU původně napsal:

dawg i dont think it requires reading comprehension to realize how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid the idea of "more damage at higher style" is

bad reading comprehension blaixen
can you read my post again

I think if 2 ppl got what u meant wrong it isnt bad reading comprehension lol

[super 9]

RandomGuy původně napsal:

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

bad reading comprehension blaixen
can you read my post again

I think if 2 ppl got what u meant wrong it isnt bad reading comprehension lol

it is
i mean, i literally said "maybe they could make the sawblades damage you when youre under ultrakill style" how can you misinterpret that

[BlaixenU]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

RandomGuy původně napsal:

I think if 2 ppl got what u meant wrong it isnt bad reading comprehension lol

it is
i mean, i literally said "maybe they could make the sawblades damage you when youre under ultrakill style" how can you misinterpret that

you know how people enter denial when they hear an absolutely braindead take? yea thats what happened

in what realm can 'maybe saws can damage you' work at all, like seriously, why

[super 9]

BlaixenU původně napsal:

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

it is
i mean, i literally said "maybe they could make the sawblades damage you when youre under ultrakill style" how can you misinterpret that

you know how people enter denial when they hear an absolutely braindead take? yea thats what happened

in what realm can 'maybe saws can damage you' work at all, like seriously, why

it would make the sawblade launcher a lot more skill based by making it so that you cant just turn off your brain and plop a saw trap in a random spot to get free kills and actually have to use your brain to avoid shredding yourself, plus if youre good at the game and have ultrakill style you get to enjoy not having to do that

and if you think it makes using the sawblade launcher too difficult then you just became the cerberus that walks straight into the trap and gets instakilled

[Billy]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

BlaixenU původně napsal:

you know how people enter denial when they hear an absolutely braindead take? yea thats what happened

in what realm can 'maybe saws can damage you' work at all, like seriously, why

it would make the sawblade launcher a lot more skill based by making it so that you cant just turn off your brain and plop a saw trap in a random spot to get free kills and actually have to use your brain to avoid shredding yourself, plus if youre good at the game and have ultrakill style you get to enjoy not having to do that

and if you think it makes using the sawblade launcher too difficult then you just became the cerberus that walks straight into the trap and gets instakilled

You do not realize how chaotic the saw blades are when they're flying around, you would move it away from being in your eyes overused to being avoided at all costs for regular play, which is a worse fate for a weapon in my honest opinion - especially with the fact that the magnet can break, imagine how inconsistent it would be to set one down, some random explosion breaks it and "Oops!" you just went from 100 health to 10 by the sawblades unluckily hitting your sternum and then dying to some random chip damage. It would be like making the ricochet from your gun hurt you, it just adds a frustrating random element that hurts the gun instead of make it "balanced"

The nailgun is built around a lot of damage in a short burst, with traps prolonging its existence; it already has a pretty fair handicap (slow regenerating ammo) and it's only really busted against the basic husks which are huge pushovers anyways (you just punch them with your fist and they're dead). I think the only thing I'd want to see is less skill output for multikills from it, if there's a crowd of husks chasing you and you put a nailtrap down and linger in the air it's a super easy way to skyrocket to the ULTRAKILL rank with minimal effort.

[super 9]

Billy původně napsal:

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

it would make the sawblade launcher a lot more skill based by making it so that you cant just turn off your brain and plop a saw trap in a random spot to get free kills and actually have to use your brain to avoid shredding yourself, plus if youre good at the game and have ultrakill style you get to enjoy not having to do that

and if you think it makes using the sawblade launcher too difficult then you just became the cerberus that walks straight into the trap and gets instakilled

You do not realize how chaotic the saw blades are when they're flying around, you would move it away from being in your eyes overused to being avoided at all costs for regular play, which is a worse fate for a weapon in my honest opinion - especially with the fact that the magnet can break, imagine how inconsistent it would be to set one down, some random explosion breaks it and "Oops!" you just went from 100 health to 10 by the sawblades unluckily hitting your sternum and then dying to some random chip damage. It would be like making the ricochet from your gun hurt you, it just adds a frustrating random element that hurts the gun instead of make it "balanced"

The nailgun is built around a lot of damage in a short burst, with traps prolonging its existence; it already has a pretty fair handicap (slow regenerating ammo) and it's only really busted against the basic husks which are huge pushovers anyways (you just punch them with your fist and they're dead). I think the only thing I'd want to see is less skill output for multikills from it, if there's a crowd of husks chasing you and you put a nailtrap down and linger in the air it's a super easy way to skyrocket to the ULTRAKILL rank with minimal effort.

then be on high style
cant do that? skill issue
and theres an easy fix for the magnet breaking and the saws going all over the place: being above the ground
also i assume that if the sawblades were actually made friendly fire then they would damage you less than they damage enemies to not make it too unfair

[super 9]

plus ive already seen how sawblades being able to damage you plays like from playing the jaket multiplayer mod and its actually not that bad, even when you walk into a fully set up sawblade trap it takes like 5 seconds for you to die because of i-frames, so i think the sawblade launcher being friendly fire wouldnt be unfair unless youre really, really bad at the game

[Billy]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

Billy původně napsal:

You do not realize how chaotic the saw blades are when they're flying around, you would move it away from being in your eyes overused to being avoided at all costs for regular play, which is a worse fate for a weapon in my honest opinion - especially with the fact that the magnet can break, imagine how inconsistent it would be to set one down, some random explosion breaks it and "Oops!" you just went from 100 health to 10 by the sawblades unluckily hitting your sternum and then dying to some random chip damage. It would be like making the ricochet from your gun hurt you, it just adds a frustrating random element that hurts the gun instead of make it "balanced"

The nailgun is built around a lot of damage in a short burst, with traps prolonging its existence; it already has a pretty fair handicap (slow regenerating ammo) and it's only really busted against the basic husks which are huge pushovers anyways (you just punch them with your fist and they're dead). I think the only thing I'd want to see is less skill output for multikills from it, if there's a crowd of husks chasing you and you put a nailtrap down and linger in the air it's a super easy way to skyrocket to the ULTRAKILL rank with minimal effort.

then be on high style
cant do that? skill issue
and theres an easy fix for the magnet breaking and the saws going all over the place: being above the ground
also i assume that if the sawblades were actually made friendly fire then they would damage you less than they damage enemies to not make it too unfair

You say being above the ground is viable as if every arena you go to is a perfect flat box with 0 slopes. Also your proposition of being high skill to lower the damage only adds another layer of inconsistency to the weapon - especially for the fact you lose skill by being hurt in the first place; I just don't agree with the idea of making the gun grossly inconsistent to make it "balanced", and ironically it would only incentivise safe plays with the weapon where it is only used as a magnet trap to lure enemies towards it, as using it regularly or trying to parry the projectiles away will only punish you by becoming a rogue ricocheting projectile that will hurt you and won't go away.

[super 9]

Billy původně napsal:

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

then be on high style
cant do that? skill issue
and theres an easy fix for the magnet breaking and the saws going all over the place: being above the ground
also i assume that if the sawblades were actually made friendly fire then they would damage you less than they damage enemies to not make it too unfair

You say being above the ground is viable as if every arena you go to is a perfect flat box with 0 slopes. Also your proposition of being high skill to lower the damage only adds another layer of inconsistency to the weapon - especially for the fact you lose skill by being hurt in the first place; I just don't agree with the idea of making the gun grossly inconsistent to make it "balanced", and ironically it would only incentivise safe plays with the weapon where it is only used as a magnet trap to lure enemies towards it, as using it regularly or trying to parry the projectiles away will only punish you by becoming a rogue ricocheting projectile that will hurt you and won't go away.

once again, as i said in the post that you didnt read, it takes 5 seconds straight of being in a fully set up sawblade trap to die, if you are dying because of single rogue sawblades, thats a a skill issue

[super 9]

also saws do go away, since they break eventually after hitting a wall or an enemy too much, so this would incentivise getting the most out of your saw traps before they break since if you dont youll just create a massive problem for yourself, which makes you have to think about where you place the saw trap and doesnt let you just use it as a free damage weapon, the only situation where this is inconsistent is when you are bad at the game, guess what you are

[Billy]

super luigi cheVrolet 2006 původně napsal:

Billy původně napsal:

You say being above the ground is viable as if every arena you go to is a perfect flat box with 0 slopes. Also your proposition of being high skill to lower the damage only adds another layer of inconsistency to the weapon - especially for the fact you lose skill by being hurt in the first place; I just don't agree with the idea of making the gun grossly inconsistent to make it "balanced", and ironically it would only incentivise safe plays with the weapon where it is only used as a magnet trap to lure enemies towards it, as using it regularly or trying to parry the projectiles away will only punish you by becoming a rogue ricocheting projectile that will hurt you and won't go away.

once again, as i said in the post that you didnt read, it takes 5 seconds straight of being in a fully set up sawblade trap to die, if you are dying because of single rogue sawblades, thats a a skill issue

also you can parry the saws or just place another magnet, its not that hard
and you can be on ultrakill style 99% of the time if you are good at the game, you are not, so this is only a problem for you

I think you're just upset people think your idea is bad and you're resorting to calling people "unskilled" to cope. Give me a better argument than "duhhh you're just bad at the game"

Also if it only takes 5 seconds to die to a fully set up sawblade trap to die what the hell is the point of it doing damage in the first place, that doesn't even give it a significant nerf (hell the mere idea of standing still means less points anyways so nobody is going to even be phased by it). You're basically just adding on a useless inconsistent vector of damage and then slapping the "balanced" sticker on it.

To quote Hakita, "It's a good thing you guys aren't designing ultrakill or it would suck"