A comprehensive and attempted objective look at the guns

[ShirowMasamune]

I will be updating this as New guns and new enemies come out, But i wanted to try to break down the weapons, Where they are useful. Where they are not so useful. Where they work in conjuction and so on. if i have missed anything let me know, Id also like to know peoples favourites.


Before we Begin, No matter what anyone says over all, Depending on your play style depends on what you find useful, You might find Certain tactics not to your liking, As stated with one of the guns, It has split people right down the middle with half saying its useless and half saying its the best. If you have Different views or have found tactics that maybe few others have thought of. Feel free to post corrections or personal takes, and keep in mind that no matter how straight to the facts i might try to be, It would also be based on my testing with my play style. There are things i might forget to mention or even not realise, and be sure to check over the comments for other peoples takes as well. Thank you ^_^


The Starting Pistol... and it's Alts.

The standard pistol has a decently fast fire rate, Is hit scan so it has incredibly range, and can easily be used up close as well. the damage enough to 1 shot lower teir enemies, May require a head shot. For the slightly tankier enemies, it takes significantly more shots, How ever. Basic pistol only, is possibly to pull off thanks to the Majority of the enemies having low Hp, It is not a throw away weapon as there will always be circumstances where it is useful

The Piercer Alt Fire.
A charged beam that hits 3 times. Useful for taking out or softening priority targets. As the name suggests, it pierces, but only 3 times And thankfully it only Pierces if the enemy it hits dies, Making it still useful for bosses as all 3 will hit a single target. It is a little more situational than the standard fire, but those situations do arise.

The MarksMan Alt Fire,
It is initially easy to overlook this as style for styles sake but if you have the terrain for it, you can hit enemies over cover or around corners with the coin, Helps in low hp situations if you have the cover. If you know when enemies will spawn you can chain all 4 coins just as they spawn to take out most of them before a fire fight starts. and since the ricochet aims for the weak points of the enemies, the damage is often quite high as well. able to kill some mid tier enemies with the right timing and able to deal large chunks of damage to higher tier enemies as well. The situations where this will be Combat useful are much fewer and farther between however, There is always usually a better solution to the problems you might be facing.


The Shotguns.
Core Eject Alt Standard Fire.
The standard fire is a little slow on this one, It has a high damage output but it is not useful for groups, at close range the spread is small, and at long range the spread is to high. Less about clearing groups and more dealing heavy damage to single targets. And more importantly Getting the Health from the enemies,

Core Eject. Effectively a grenade, It explodes on impact with a relatively small area of effect, With a lot less damage than i feel it should do, The grenade flies further than you will ever need it to fly fully charged, so range is not a problem. without a charge the explosion will hit you. Like the Marksman. The combat scenarios where the grenade will be useful are few, The shotgun itself has a built in option that is more effective in combat and that is the ability to punch the shell, This takes a little timing, but when you are used to it, it makes the shotgun much more effective at long range, and from shooting repeatedly, Looks like the explosion is a little bigger than the grenade also. You can now Shoot the Ejected Core to make it explode


The Pump charge.
The standard fire Fires slightly faster than the core eject, Making it more useful in combat in general, and the pump charge allows you to increase the pellet count for higher damage. Again at long range the spread is way to high to be effective. But at close range the damage it deals might be seen as a little excessive, The over charge however is the dark horse here. If you are willing to risk 50 points of Hp. You can deal with enemies like the Malicious face In 1 hit. I say Risk, Because you can avoid the damage of the over charges huge explosion, but it requires timing that you can easily mess up. The explosion radius is very high and the damage is massive, making it useful for dealing with the higher tier enemies and also wiping out all of the lowest tier enemies that might be surrounding you Combat wise this shotgun has the most uses, as being close to heal from enemies is useful, and this is the best close range weapon in the game so far.


Nail gun.
From the things i have read from people, This is certainly the most confusing weapon, Half the people saying its useless, the other half saying its over powered. The nail gun deals mid to high damage at close to mid range because of its extremely fast fire rate, It also makes a lot of enemies stutter it does not usually kill anything faster than the shotgun would, But when the enemies are stuttering who needs to kill them faster. So whats the catch ? Its blood. Where as the Shotgun might leave a large hole, The nails leave small holes, and the nails also basically plug those holes, The blood you get from using the nail gun effectively makes it a light Regeneration rather than a full heal like the shotgun often is and can be. The Attractor can be Strategically handy, And also quite devastating if you nail a strong enemy in the head with a magnet and load its face full of steel, But in difficult fights, you are often better pressed to maximise your damage and your healing. the nail gun does not truly come in to its own until you unlock the heatsink Where you can stick a magnet in to someones head. and then proceed to load them with an huge ammount of nails that are on fire. The damage on using and hitting Both charges of the heatsink deals massive damage to the bosses, including absolutly mincing the Act 1 final boss.
It is not as universally useful as the shotgun, But it is powerful

The Rail Gun.
Electric
Decently powerful Piercing blast, Good for dealing a large ammount of damage. or clearing out a lot of enemies in a line, It is instant, and is useful as a opening or a closing move, But Because of the charge time this is obviously not a primary weapon, Its a secondary weapon where the developers misunderstood what the term secondary means. It is effectively your smart bomb option, Limited use, But devastating.


Screwdriver.....
I actually need help with this one. i have been testing it out a little bit, and i am just not seeing it. It deals Slow damage over time, Which is not as good as any of the other versions of the Rail cannon. And im not seeing where it is good combined with anything compared to using the Heat sink in conjuction to deleting the enemies with the Electic rail gun. If anyone has spotted a use for this., please comment and let me know.

Malicious.
This is the logical antithesis to the shotgun, The shotgun is fantastic for heavy damage against single targets. This is useful for killing all lower teir enemies in a large area, while dealing an okay amount of damage to anything that survives, This is a great way of clearing enemies out when you want to focus on the malicious faces or the stone statues,


The Revolver Upgrade...
an effective 2X boost in power from the standard, Enemies that would have taken 2 shots before. Now take 1. things that take 4 to 5 now often take 2. The shooting speed is slightly less than standard. but the power easily justifies that.This is the strongest long range weapon the game currently has to offer. The Piercer Alt of the upgrade is significantly stronger, using in conjunction with the electric rail gun to kill the faces from afar with great ease,

I only just Found out you can use the marksman with the upgraded pistol. and also that you can Deflect any hit scan shot off of the coin. so the The coin is slightly more powerful than i thought.

[Durendal.exe]

So, I went to try and get nails to 'uselessly orbit' enemies. I've largely been trying to recreate most of your complaints to understand what you're arguing,

In order to get nails to orbit the Face in 0-1 consistently, I had to shoot at roughly 70 degrees or more off target. These nails still eventually hit it, but it did take them a bit longer to make their way there. Decreasing the alpha of the weapon but not, really, its DPS.

Admittedly I didn't try this with the overheat nails, but the outcomes a given. They're faster, they'll orbit longer and be more sensitive to firing angle.

V2 was a little harder. It took me about three minutes and four restarts to finish him using only the nailgun. He's both small and evasive, and sticking him with a single magnet, indeed, wasn't a terribly effective strategy. Traps were somewhat more so. The winning move eventually turned out to be to build a nailball and then magnet him, resulting in large lump damage as the orb pingponged between the floor magnet and his. He doesn't really have a lot of health so this took maybe twenty, thirty seconds? Slippery bastard, he is.

I'm not the biggest fan of the nailgun. It still took me less than five minutes to develop a strategy to kill this boss pretty much as fast as my PB with any other weapon combo that I normally prefer. Also, it was mechanically more fun than coinshots and pump overcharges. (Remember fun?)

(edit) Went and redid 2-4 boss with nailgun only. Not really any slower. Significantly less fun. But he's kinda an easy spectacle boss anyway. A few tries since I had to stand so close and not do...much. Wrong gun for that guy, for sure. (/edit)

The magnet isn't meant to be an aimbot that automatically pulls the nails directly to it with no input from you.

But I'm sure the disagreement, based on actually going and studying the mechanics, isn't of any substance. Especially because you seem to be carrying over every vehement argument you've ever had about game mechanics to this one, if your last post is any indication.

tl;dr. My professional conclusion, after actual testing, is still 'mad cuz bad'

[ShirowMasamune]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by ShirowMasamune:

Hey, if you are not finding a use for the nail gun that's down to your play style and there is nothing wrong with that at all., No amount of people telling you that you are using it wrong is going to change you mind or your play style, and if you are clearing the game anyway, it hardly matters if you don't like the nail gun. or are not finding any practical uses for it.

I'm seeing more people than i thought defend the screw driver in general, and that is as worthless to me as the nail gun appears to be for you.

*glitchy nails orbit around an enemy with a magnet spike sticking out of them instead of hurting them*
"Clearly this is perfect, and the only problem is me and my playstyle not giving this perfect and wonderful gun a fair chance."

And yet, people still reach for the 'Git gud, you just mad cuz bad' defense when they have nothing of substance to defend rough edges with.

Rail gun is drill lackluster, but it is far less glitchy in it's disappointment, and requires far less setup for the letdown of a payoff. So of course people will defend it more by comparison.

Granted, my mindset has been shaped by watching people claim anything and everything is based on "Pure skill" when the real reason you beat a boss is planning for them to no-clip attacks through walls.

Or complain food that makes you vomit blood in a survival game is OP because it grows on trees... while you have sci-fi wildlife respawning. No no, barfing blood is OP because it saved you button presses.

Or declare mercy invincibility in a sonic clone means "You don't get REAL oldschool platformer gameplay!", when the only reason most of the playerbase dies is chained hits or being air juggled instead of the pits and running out of air.

Or whine that a lack of companion permadeath by default means a game is for casual babies. even as they no-clip through railings 300 feet above the ground or can't even walk past a safety cone without the physics engine mangling themselves.

People will say any wild insanity with no basis on reality, if they think it will make them sound like a more big boy gamer.

oi. Im helping, Try to be less antagonistic, I never mentioned skill. i mentioned play style, I never said to git good. i simple stated the way you play, The way i play is different, Not better. Im finding practical use for the nail gun. You are not. people Find practical uses for the Drill, I don't !. I don't find many practical uses for the Core eject. Many people are,

You don't have to defend yourself. no ones asking you to. No one is saying you are bad. I am not implying you are bad.

My play style does not account for the drill or the core eject, I barly use the pump action unless im over charging it.

I also don't remember singing its praises like its over powered, It's still on the lower end of use for me,

To quote Durandal.
.Everybody's got a method though! The rather lively arguments about which gun is "Actually OP" to me just indicates they're all solidly designed.

[ImHelping]

I have found over the years that you need to basically remove any possibility of people treating "Actually, *irritating thing* is really high quality* as a platform to preen on.

Case in point, Minos is dead again. And He's dead after taking the time to carefully pepper his eyeballs with magnetic spikes, and see that yup. Nails still wouldn't reach him to deal damage to his giant face even with magnets sticking out of his eyeballs. (And you just know, somebody would be VERY excited to say "Well you need to wait for the perfect moment for his face to come into range of your gun!" like were were talking about shotgun blasts rather than, supposedly the oh so OP spike =profit with eyes closed combo)

Oh but mad cuz bad, mad cuz nailgun super great and perfect and not "Well, maybe I can shoot the boss's hands with it instead of, you know. Shooting him in his big ol weakpoints."

Remember, we've got people ♥♥♥♥ on prospective customers for finding some of the platforming and air play iffy in the demo as "Mad cuz bad". When this is a game where a single trash mob arm cannon man can glitch you so bad you are launched high enough the arena becomes the size of a bottle cap on your screen.

Bad faith hot takes meant only to preen at the cost of overall quality are everywhere in gaming, basically.

People talk ♥♥♥♥, over and over. Then cry like babies if someone is even 3% as sassy as they ever will be it isn't in a way that caters to "look at how hardcore the hardcore boys are".

Because oh, sure, ♥♥♥♥ on anyone who thinks the game is anything less than flawless from the safe comfort of "haha they can't beat X". But side with the poor newbies from the winner circle and suddenly you're gaming satan maximum rude boy, no matter what franchise it is.


For a lighter moment for the Nail gun I do use it on purpose for cerberus statue rematches. Because they are less prone to cause "Pfft, just because that happens to you enough to roll your eyes at doesn't count!" wacky shenanigans with the nails. Which bumps it up to a "Might as well use the-" compared to the "I SHOULD use the-" of other weapons against those guys.

They are more potentially deadly, but big statue boy feels like a more honest and genuine enemy than Stone heads where the most memorable part is "Were they floating in an annoying location?". Even if they are #1 most wanted for causing wacky knockback physics glitches.

[Venc Ganence]

I used to give your rants the benefit of the doubt, but being around the ULTRAKILL forums, every one of your posts comes with a bucket of salt. I can't take such frothing madness seriously.

[ShirowMasamune]

after what i posted, All of that seems vaguely incoherent

[Durendal.exe]

I mean, it was pretty much totally incoherent. Bravo.


Hey on subject, has it come up if you pepper someone with nails then hit them with the electric railgun all the nails fekkin' explode? It doesn't seem to actually do a lot of damage but it's visually gratifying, at least.

[Hakita]

Originally posted by Durendal5150:

I mean, it was pretty much totally incoherent. Bravo.


Hey on subject, has it come up if you pepper someone with nails then hit them with the electric railgun all the nails fekkin' explode? It doesn't seem to actually do a lot of damage but it's visually gratifying, at least.

It can do a decent extra chunk of damage but I had to keep it fairly low to make sure the Electric railcannon doesn't become too strong compared to the rest, making it the obvious choice and hence no longer an option.

If you burst a boss down with 2 magneted heatsink bursts though you'll get a nice boost with the aftershock damage.

[Durendal.exe]

Originally posted by Hakita:

It can do a decent extra chunk of damage but I had to keep it fairly low to make sure the Electric railcannon doesn't become too strong compared to the rest, making it the obvious choice and hence no longer an option.

That's what I figured, yeah. It's a nice bonus if you happen to use the nailgun a lot. I'll have to give some more practice to it. Off to hose down hideous mass with me.

S'probably nothing I enjoy more about your game than all the weird little mechanical interactions like that I keep finding. Every time I think to myself "Well, I've probably found all the bizarre ways weapons interact," I'm wrong.

If nothing else from this argument, going back and restricting myself to certain weapons or combos to make sure I really understand how they work has been eye opening. And slightly too much fun.

[Skyblade799]

I'll have to mess with it later, but for the screwdriver what I usually do is just nail a big target (or bosses) head with it, and then switch to the nailgun to do the same with attractor and heatsink for massive damage. The weapon description implies it would work well with other weapons, but I'm not yet sure if mixing different weapons actually has any actual effect on the screwdriver's damage, or if firing into the spear does anything.

Edit: Also, does destroying the attractor spikes with the revolver do anything of note? Edit 2: Just checked, no it doesn't.

[Durendal.exe]

Originally posted by Skyblade799:

Edit: Also, does destroying the attractor spikes with the revolver do anything of note?

It releases all the nails to fly off and hit things, but that's 'bout all.

And yeah, I'm kinda wondering now if the drill has a combo I just haven't figured out, myself. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Arevi]

For people complaining about the nails orbiting, just move the magnet? I legit thought that was the actual point of the weapon before reading comments due to how hard it can be to actually land the magnet ON a target. You can literally hide, launch magnet and create a death orb, then just move it about. You can even fill the death orb with flamey death which is super awesome looking and can be used like a nail bomb if you hit the magnet spike with any of the pistols.

Personally i detest the Coin Shot, its the only weapon i un-equip but i dont think its bad, i just dont like its gimmick. Id much rather just dive towards the enemies pumping shotgun shells, so its definitely a preference thing. Ironically I actually hope they lean into this and create more super niche weapons with unique play styles so that every type of player can have that super badass feeling

I will also defend the Screw Driver. I only ever pull it out for bigger enemies and normally its so i can deal with other more annoying threats since usually the bigger boys are super easy to dodge around. It was mentioned by RC55 as well that the blood it creates is SUPER useful, especially if you are just learning a boss or tougher move set. I do think the projectile itself needs to move a lil faster (here is a test for those of you who are better than me, can the projectile be punched like the shotty shells can?) but otherwise its a niche slot just like its 2 brothers.

[Dr.Drake]

Originally posted by Arevi:

For people complaining about the nails orbiting, just move the magnet? I legit thought that was the actual point of the weapon before reading comments due to how hard it can be to actually land the magnet ON a target. You can literally hide, launch magnet and create a death orb, then just move it about. You can even fill the death orb with flamey death which is super awesome looking

Personally i detest the Coin Shot, its the only weapon i un-equip but i dont think its bad, i just dont like its gimmick. Id much rather just dive towards the enemies pumping shotgun shells, so its definitely a preference thing. Ironically I actually hope they lean into this and create more super niche weapons with unique play styles so that every type of player can have that super badass feeling

I will also defend the Screw Driver. I only ever pull it out for bigger enemies and normally its so i can deal with other more annoying threats since usually the bigger boys are super easy to dodge around. It was mentioned by RC55 as well that the blood it creates is SUPER useful, especially if you are just learning a boss or tougher move set. I do think the projectile itself needs to move a lil faster but otherwise its a niche slot just like its 2 brothers.

In defense of the coinshot, it allows you to focus more on dodging. And does more damage to two targets for shooting just one. Although on the magnum it does take some getting used to with the slower fire rate.

[Arevi]

Yea thats cool, like i said i know the weapon is good so no defending needed, i just dont like it xD (and yes, its because im bad. I know this, i can live with that knowledge. Now give me a rocket launcher and a hook hand that yanks enemies to me/me to them if they big chonks xD)

[Dracula]

alt marksman cant split shot, so it's worse than the default one, but alt piercer is a bosskiller

the nailgun does less damage against enemies with a magnet in them, you should plant magnets around and shoot your nails, then bait the enemies into the flying balls of death for lots of style and damage

malicious is completely useless, you can replace it with a projectile boosted shotgun and not waste a railcannon charge

screwdriver turns the enemies into a living blood bank and its what got me through gabe on my first run, since 1 dash under an enemy with a screwdriver in them heals you up to 100

coin increases your weapon's damage, and you can also throw a coin behind an enemy and use the electric railcannon on him then hit the coin behind them to hit them twice with 1 charge

[ShirowMasamune]

I use the Malicious a lot if i'm looking for an instant Ultrakill