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so it seems that this stems from not knowing what you've signed up for, rather than the nature of the development cycle itself. early access gets a bad rep for being abused by big companies to push unfinished products, but where it really shines is funding a more artistic and personal indie endeavour like this game.
i think a major blind spot in your evaluation is that you're not taking in account how much is being scrapped for not meeting standards, or numerous experiments to try to get the creative juices flowing; it's an entire creative process, not a straight shot to making a product, which i will concede is probably unusual for the average person who doesn't indulge in more "personalised" indie games. not sure how one could effectively communicate that's what this game is going for, other than like, reading his twitter and realising how invested in albums/art he is lol
Ultrakill was with newblood before it hit Steam, and entered early access already being published by newblood.
While yes, Early access is a great tool to allow for games to be guided along the process by community over time, Ultrakill doesn't do this at all. Community reception barely comes in except for extreme backlash and merchandise. Early Access doesn't seem to be a matter of funding at all, either.
Other than that Early access was seemingly just a way to push an unfinished game to market to start racking up fat stacks of money ASAP and ride that high for YEARS with no need to rush because the game's concept was already so damn good. Considering development is going at the pace it is and as you yourself described the process to be, it would have been better for development for the game to release into early access significantly later than it was to avoid the exact discussion we are having now.
By your own logic of it being a continuous process that would indicate Hakita wasn't sure of where the game would go when it released into early access, which is a little concerning considering most early access titles have a roadmap or at least some solid idea as to designs for the future. I mean we already lost the 4th variant for all weapons. This is why dev transparency is so vital to Early Access games, because we like to know what's going on with something where we paid to be part of the developmental process.
The entire early access spiel is all about how the community is supposedly shaping ultrakill however little is done to clue the greater community in on it besides slight teasers.
Not to mention Hakita's "It's a good thing none of you are designing ultrakill because it would suck" which is not something you want to hear from a dev putting their game into early access for the supposed reason of community involvement.
You literally said "Hakita has no idea what he's doing after 5 years of development"
when i mention big companies abusing early access, i'm talking about mainstream AAA games, not smaller indie games.
(combined these points to make it more legible)
being "guided along by the community" is NOT how you make personalised indie games (or any type of personalised art), it's how you fix bugs, balance and mistakes/flaws. things like level design, lore, enemy design, art, music etc is what takes up the majority of development time, and those things require an extensive creative process to refine into something that reflects the aesthetic the developer is going for, much like mixing an album. while community input is very valued for more specific game design things, saying that the community guides the process along is very ignorant to this process.
while this may be true for the proverbial abuses of the system by fat cat industry giants, for an indie developer in finland, that sort of money goes a long way for the development of the game. i doubt the game would ever be finished or even get to the point you want it to be without this funding.
again, this is a byproduct of it being a more creative work than a straight product; it would be like having a roadmap of every song on an album or every scene in a movie or every chapter in a book, it is understandable why hakita would want that information to not be public.
depends what you mean by "having no idea what they're doing". if that involves finding the creative sparks to build ideas off of, then no artist knows what they're doing until the art is complete.
it breaks every update
The “guiding the process” bit is something I took directly from the early access page for sure, but I understood that doesn’t mean the community is going to guide anything besides balance. I would never wish for a community to massively alter a creators vision, that’s just evil. However the community really isn’t involved with much balancing either considering Hakita rarely seems to consider much feedback outside of massive backlash like the P-2 arenas and The Whiplash.
Not saying it shouldn’t be funded at all if that’s what you think I mean, but isn’t that the point of the publisher? To find it BEFORE it hits market? The idea of releasing an unfinished game From the outside looking in it seems way more profitable for NewBlood to run with the Early Access model to make the most through their cut. I think it’s great and deserved that Hakita is getting more funding, but that doesn’t call the purpose of EA into question for the Company that publishes it.
He can easily clue the community in to what to expect without revealing exact details, nobody’s asking him to spoil the ending of the story here. Just an idea of when he would want progress to be accomplished by. Having progress dropped in our laps at random while fun, sucks in the long term as any pre-established pattern is out the window. We even lost those posts that would hype people up before updates, which were really fun and set a date and things we’d be seeing (not spoiled though).
That’s the kind of dev transparency we want.
by "push unfinished games" do you mean have the game constantly be in limbo/early access hell as an excuse for being unpolished and bug ridden due to being rushed and underpaying developers? as far as i'm aware, only industry giants are able to pull off that scheme, otherwise it's just a natural development cycle for indie games.
i think the community provides adequate feedback for the balance of the game; i personally complained about people cheesing p-2 by doing the invincible slide glitch, and that promptly got patched out in a week. but yeah, it's usually glaring mistakes and flaws that'll definitely get that treatment rather than personal gripes a player might have. (whiplash nerf...)
you claimed that it should go into early access further down the line than where it did currently, all i'm saying is that it probably would've died before getting to the point where you see fit for early access release. newblood is just acting as a middleman for this transaction; the transaction still has to happen for it to be viable for newblood & hakita. also, newblood is quite a strange publisher because they seem to work as a collective more than a traditional publisher, like how they work on each other's games and lend concept artists and animators and such. that ofc also needs funding.
that deadline concept is probably the #1 reason why games, films, books, tv shows, etc with lots of potential turn out mediocre. you cannot rush the creative process, and having a deadline is a vice grip around the neck of creativity, to the point it's a trope in modern writing... the writer with writer's block trying everything they can to spur creativity to meet a deadline, like going in the middle of nowhere in a creepy cabin like alan wake, or jack torrance going insane in "the shining"...
While it's true it wouldn't be nearly as successful in terms of money generation, releasing later in the development cycle would serve to let Hakita finalize their vision before they release it to the public, funneling community feedback into a more strictly balance and bug fix
This and we wouldn't be entering year 4 with the timeframe of an entire ACT in complete question, considering we've seen incredibly little and nothing solid.
Nobody's saying you can't delay or set an extremely far or vague deadline but... Anything helps?
Deadlines are absolutely limiting, however they're also incredibly important in the creative process to keep the entire thing focussed and on time. I would never, EVER advocate crunch, just communication and timely organization.
Besides, if we're still at a point in development that a deadline would restrict the creation of future content, Early Access was too early.
i disagree, as i've been exposed to many, many games that fall into actual development hell; it's more about the nature of the game than anything. a game that values creativity above all else will have a much slower process than something that is paint-by-numbers game design.
the paradox here is that the game would require the proverbial funding to get to that point where you'd want it to be; since we don't have the financial receipts for newblood, it's up in the air whether newblood could even fund hakita's development process without the early access model, but a major clue is that dave oshry repeatedly admitted that ultrakill is the major source of income for newblood in general.
i think once hakita is comfortable that everything is converging towards an end point in a timely manner, he will set a date on it; otherwise it's a wild guess which is only detrimental to the design process if hakita cannot meet those standards, especially with something as fickle as creative inspiration.