ULTRAKILL
Now that the dust has settled around Under the Mayos Ultrakill videos, what are the general thoughts around his points?
Its no secret a lot of controversy has brewed surrounding Mayo and his videos around Ultrakill. I just want to see what the general feelings around him and his content with Ultrakill are now that he uploaded a response to the drama clarifying some things.

My two cents: He went into Ultrakill with a horrible mindset that plagued both his videos and his gameplay, he went in with a mindset "Im going to review this game and its going to be hated so ♥♥♥♥ it" and somehow thought his lameplay with the pistol would be the usual Noob experience to the game. This led to his first joke review which is what really set things off, I wonder if had he made an actual review for Act1 would he be as hated as he is now, but the joke review is what we got and its just bad and unfunny. Then he kept this up with his Style review where he was even more hostile with the UK and its core mechanics, which again stemmed from his own horrible mindset. His actual points from Act2 review arent entirely awful, a rebalancing of Act1 wouldnt be half bad, but because they come from him and how he's treated the game I can see why people hated his review. What are your thoughts on the matter
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Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
^1Buk^7kac^4racy Oct 4, 2022 @ 3:32pm 
i liked the marksman being the first pistol idea
chester Oct 4, 2022 @ 3:57pm 
I agree with the point he made about the V2 fight. The difficulty gap between standard levels and some bosses is bigger than it should be imo. I also fully agree that the style meter should have an impact on gameplay instead of just contributing to P ranks. It was really easy to ignore it prior to this update because of how little effort it took to get S in style for most levels.

As a whole, I understand his argument to an extent. Playing though the entire first third of the game with only the starting pistol is a little easier than it should be. But it's still far from optimal, and it's extremely unlikely that most new players are going to play like that.

One thing I don't understand is why Mayo seemingly refuses to acknowledge the prime sanctums. It kinda debunks his entire argument that the style meter is arbitrary. Locking significant content behind perfecting every level is more than enough motivation to do it as far as I'm concerned.

Overall though I think the complaints that Mayo still has about the game will be resolved by Brutal and UKMD difficulties. Hard damage is probably gonna be much more prevalent, and maintaining high style is gonna be a lot more important, even in Act 1 when you don't have the whiplash yet. I hope we get Brutal with the P-2 update cause Violent starts to feel mind numbingly easy after a while.
Last edited by chester; Oct 4, 2022 @ 3:57pm
Supa Oct 4, 2022 @ 4:44pm 
Rent free.
I don't care what he thinks, I've seen a couple of his other videos before ultrakill gained a real presence online and saw pretty quickly that the dude had a piece of ♥♥♥♥ attitude that I wanted nothing to do with, even without being able to debunk his claims (I don't think playing outriders would've been worth it).

Originally posted by chester:
One thing I don't understand is why Mayo seemingly refuses to acknowledge the prime sanctums. It kinda debunks his entire argument that the style meter is arbitrary. Locking significant content behind perfecting every level is more than enough motivation to do it as far as I'm concerned.
Because he's a lolcow that's using half-truths to make points. Points that can only make sense to people who won't critically analyze them.
bolsiuseng Oct 5, 2022 @ 5:23am 
gamin :)
Hook Master Oct 5, 2022 @ 8:24am 
I think Mayo's review focuses a lot more on broadening the appeal of ultrakill from a DMC inspired style playground to a DMC inspired skill test that builds over the course of the game
Hell, after ACT I there is no increasing roadblock in ultrakill, most enemies feel like a variant of another overall.
Not to mention his success with Doom Eternal content, the long term exposure has seemingly bled into his overall game design mindset.
Nothing too bad about it to be honest, but doesn't mean it should be taken as fact.
I think the real problem with his review was people's reaction to it. People got +enraged over his review and would say ♥♥♥♥ like
Originally posted by Steak-Pocketer:
He went into Ultrakill with a horrible mindset that plagued both his videos and his gameplay, he went in with a mindset "Im going to review this game and its going to be hated so ♥♥♥♥ it"
Originally posted by Midnight Carnival Snack:
Because he's a lolcow that's using half-truths to make points. Points that can only make sense to people who won't critically analyze them.
Plus the absolute hellscape that is his comments
People took his review as if it was fact or something, not realizing that it's a guy's own perspective and it affects absolutely nothing.
Nothing is going to change before or after Mayo's review, except it unfortunately highlighted the deep-rooted toxicity beginning to brew in the community, only last seen during the whiplash's nerf.
Obviously a fault of every community, but Ultrakill's seems fueled by the fact that most problems with the game's design or status are always dismissed by the greater community with either
- Skill Issue
- It's not finished
- It's only one person working on it
(The last one isn't even true by the way and it'd be nice if people stopped parroting it)

Overall though, Mayo's review is really just his own video, and if people don't like it, they can just not watch it. If people let a subjective youtube review (That affects NOTHING) get them angry, they need to step away from the computer and go outside.
Supa Oct 5, 2022 @ 10:20am 
I am pretty sure that he intentionally made the game look like 'ok' instead of 'good' to make himself more visible fro the typical "this is the best fps I have played" review crowd and you all took the bait like little ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Cardboard Oct 5, 2022 @ 11:30am 
underthemayo
Bankai9212 Oct 5, 2022 @ 11:39am 
Mayo is bad at certain games, instead of just saying it’s not his bag and move on. He makes vids that while it can have some points talks like he understands game design when he himself can’t learn in other games.
aywee Oct 5, 2022 @ 11:49am 
I'll just mention that Civvie11 handles this type of situations better:
The game comes out he's not fond of. He either
- writes a tweet that he doesn't like a game and moves on
or
- quickly explains why he doesn't like requested game and moves on to different subject (i.e. his review of Doom 3).
As a result, he doesn't play games he dislikes and avoids unnecessary drama.
Bankai9212 Oct 5, 2022 @ 11:52am 
I mean civvie provides reason with tnt he just said doing it would be boring. But he’s more interesting to watch then mayo.
Originally posted by StaticSpark:
post that mentions me
If you're implying that that I'm toxic because I think mayo's takes are bad, I'll have you know I really like kingdom hearts 3, final fantasy xv, black ops 3's campaign, resident evil 6, and Assassin's Creed 3. What do all these games have in common?

They're bad. All of them suck, and I'll be the first to tell you that, but I like them despite that.

While these are the most extreme cases, I think this should highlight that I'm very much capable of recognizing faults in media I like.

But the thing is when I highlight what I don't like about something, I try to be respectful about it. Mayo lacks humility and that attitude and doubling down on it is what makes him a lolcow. His specific suggestions don't matter, at least they don't to me.

If he had that humility, he'd be able to realize the faults in his suggestions and potentially rework those suggestions into something the community may even like.

As for your accusations of the community being toxic towards criticism, you have a point there. Regrettably, I also got swept up in the git gud attitude with the whiplash update at first before realising my error. Difficult games give people a sense of pride that can skew ones perspective on a game's design and even how a game should be fun before it's hard. There's nothing to be done about this but reminding yourself not to fall into this trap and ignoring people who can't avoid it.

Just like you acknowledge that this kind of toxicity is by no means exclusive to ultrakill, I'd like to point out that not everyone in a community is so toxic and that's just as true of ultrakill's as well. If you post a thread respectfully commenting how something is too hard, you might get a "skill issue" comment or three, but you'll likely get actual advice on whatever issue you're having as well.
Supa Oct 5, 2022 @ 5:56pm 
Originally posted by Midnight Carnival Snack:
I'll have you know I really like kingdom hearts 3, final fantasy xv, black ops 3's campaign, resident evil 6, and Assassin's Creed 3. What do all these games have in common?

They're bad. All of them suck, and I'll be the first to tell you that, but I like them despite that.
They are not bad for you if you like them. Or are you forcing yourself to play bad games? Or do you really believe that "good game" is some objective criteria? That there is some recipe to make the perfect game and no person can find it unenjoyable?
Originally posted by supa:
Originally posted by Midnight Carnival Snack:
I'll have you know I really like kingdom hearts 3, final fantasy xv, black ops 3's campaign, resident evil 6, and Assassin's Creed 3. What do all these games have in common?

They're bad. All of them suck, and I'll be the first to tell you that, but I like them despite that.
They are not bad for you if you like them. Or are you forcing yourself to play bad games? Or do you really believe that "good game" is some objective criteria? That there is some recipe to make the perfect game and no person can find it unenjoyable?
I didn't want to go into detail because I felt like that would be way too much of a tangent but I'll elaborate

With AC3, I see and appreciate the potential the game had and what I tried to do. It was rushed but despite failing to tell the completing narrative it clearly wanted, I still like thinking about the questions and topics that ultimately never went anywhere. I also think Connor is actually a good protagonist who just wasn't utilized well, he's at his best when he has others to play off of and he rarely gets that, but man I love the moments when he does. The combat, while not being mind blowing, is the best version of its system that the series gets. The parkour is an objective downgrade from the ezio trilogy but once I took the time to master it, I end up having some fun. Also tree running is something I feel even people who hate 3 would believe is still fun.

FFXV, the combat has some fundamental issues but it's close enough to being good that I don't mind and can enjoy trying to play well when the game doesn't throw some nonsense at me. The story is whatever but what really has me hooked are the main cast, a lot of people don't like them but in my eyes they have a synergy that I love and that made the whole road trip with the boys presentation work for me. Also Ardyn is unronically one of the greatest villains in FF but that's hardly a hot take.

Black Ops 3 I have nothing nice to say. Every other game I mentioned I like something enough that I can forgive its faults, BO3 I like specifically because of its faults. The plot feels like it was written by a schizophrenic off their meds and it's a rollercoaster of a ride.

To fully grasp what makes Resident Evil 6 work for me, I'd have to explain why I hate RE5. 5 is a game that wants to be a horror game and an action game at the same time but the aspects of both genres conflict with each other in a way that makes 5 frustrating to play for me. 6 wants both and fails at both but the action side of things feels like it isn't burdened by its horror roots. The action still missed the mark but on its own instead of being bogged down by the poorly thought out by 5's inventory management (4's is way better in case you're worried I just don't like inventory Tetris). A great action game is buried underneath 6's sloppy controls.

Lastly is KH3 and that is by far the hardest to explain because my reasons for enjoying it are so much more abstract. Something about the presentation just feels good. At least until you get to the data org fights, then 3 just becomes an actually good game.

And I do appreciate your words in regards to them still being good games for me, I would agree that from my perspective alone, they are good games. But I do not simply factor my own perspective when discussing things to others, that's why I like discussing things with others in the first place. If I simply ignored what other people thought and swore they're good until the cows came home, I'd be very annoying to talk to.

I describe these as bad games because I talk with others and not only understand why people don't like what I like, but it leads to me better understanding what I actually do like about these games as well. Expect KH3 but that's an anomaly This also leads to me being able to accurately recommend things to people as I can describe what people do and don't like and be able to determine if a game would be good for a particular person or not.

To summarize as best I can, it's like guilty pleasures but I don't actually feel an ounce of guilt for enjoying them while still having self awareness.
Supa Oct 5, 2022 @ 9:47pm 
Damn bro not an ounce of guilt yet all that text.

If anything Mayo was brave for taking a different perspective and staying true to it when meanwhile you need to perform Olympic level mental gymnastics about the games you find enjoyable. Like sure it may seem like insanity to you for someone to call Ultrakill mediocre but people like different things. There is no objective metric for this.

And if someone wants the game to set them rules and a fixed challenge like in Dark Souls then they are probably not gonna like Ultrakill as much. I've seen this same thing happen with Devil May Cry. Because just like in Ultrakill the game doesn't actually force you to use new weapons/moves. Well not until you unlock DMD and we still don't know when are we going to get UMD or how is it going to be.

Like let's spin this story around. What if I made a video essay on why Souls games are clunky half-assed action RPGs that have bazillion faults in them?.. Well yea guess what I will be sent so many death threats that the national security guard would come asking me what's going on.
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Date Posted: Oct 4, 2022 @ 3:13pm
Posts: 25