Long Cast Times: Magic Useless?

[markelphoenix]

Anyone else find magic with long cast times seems pointless? Cannot think of a scenario where a cast goes off and catches targets that don't immediately move out of effect area. Anyone know of ways to speed up cast times?

[Speeg..]

No way to speed up cast time.
Magic is usually very big in AoE, and deals very good magic, I don't see why you find it pointless.
There's also the fact that if you're in front of enemies you can just nuke them before the battle starts, and there's also a lot of utility, I found it funny to flood an area in Alvora, then just use lightning, making sure everything got zapped.
Always keep an eye on the indicator that tells you what turn your magic will land in, makes the whole "moving out" thing much less of a hassle.

[McFrugal]

You can work around it a bit. For instance, Scurio mages tend to be more likely to hit enemies near the start of the fight. You can use Quick Hands for a boost if you pass the first turn of combat. You can also equip a Pocketwatch to get a boost from not acting on the first turn.
You can manipulate the enemy's time bar with any ability or passive that stuns or removes time from the enemy.
You can also use abilities to hold enemies in place, like Trip Up, Stonefoot, or Break Legs. Chill has a minor effect, Oil is better.

Alternatively you can just use fast-casting abilities like those from Scholar and a few other classes, or equip a wand(or wand-like weapon) to do magic damage.

[The Flaff]

Wich is why I use my Scurio as a debilating agent. True, I usually stick him into a rogue position, but this time I decided to play with the Defiler, Enchanter and Balancer depending on the situation. Scurio get the first turn and disable the largest treat (which is funny enough, usually the slow hard hitter) and prep the rest of my team for big damage and enable my human mage to "Portal" the enemy to death. If there's any survivor left, my main character, a Ravager with an hammer, finish the job. 100% death rate thanks to this skill and well, EarthQuake. If you can max out a Defiler's skill, you can get a bonus status effect. I may try an all team mage just for fun on one of my playtrough.

[eharper256]

Personally I like the fact that this aspect makes Scholar viable as a sub-class way into the late game for quick cast firebolts (and Prayer).

But yes, basically, its about monitoring the time bar carefully when using Sorcerer. If your AOE will not hit the targets (highlight each of them in turn to check before commiting) then cancel the movement (if you made one) and look for a different option.

You can also drop an AOE in front of your characters as a preventative measure as well (the A.I. will almost never voluntarily step into one, so you can use a priming lightning bolt as an impromptu wall, albeit an expensive in MP one).

I was using Reeve as my battlemage (due to his +10 MP race), but I still gave him Darts and Javelins and Bandages just in case there is no opportunity to use Defiler or Sorcerer stuff. But I did have a Scurrio Sage for healing, which is quite helpful.

[Kaeldon]

I agree with the initial poster and found the casting delay to be pretty annoying. It was fine for my Sage where I was given a little extra time to move my own characters into heal range but I felt like offensive magic was pretty useless since the enemy would almost always have the opportunity to get out of range.

Ultimately I ended up modding it myself and removing the cast time from offensive spells so I could enjoy the classes more. (steam/steamapps/common/Horizon's Gate/Content/Data/SystemData/Definitions/actions/class actions)

[Greg_Murrell]

Long casting time alongside with huge exp pre-reqs does kill the Gatekeeper class as a viable class. It also does make usage of some magics difficult.

On the flipside, some magic is definitely worth the cast time. Elementalist's Freeze is extremely good, despite its cast time. Defiler's Heartburn and Brainshock, and Unmaker's Wither, are good as well. Sorcerer's Cyclone at least has a large AoE with good damage; I've managed to use it, despite its cast time. Pulling off a Cyclone on a foe before combat is pretty nice too.

Course, high cast time is still an issue. It's a big reason why I prefer Elementalist to Sorcerer. And unless you're wanting Gatewarden's Gate: Barrage technique (which IS a GREAT skill), I wouldn't bother going for the Gate classes.

If even that fails, you could just put your magic exp into unlocking Spell Archon. Lightning Imbue is great, though it needs level ups and lightning ranks to truly shine.

And if even that fails, at least Warden is still amazing. > _ >

[Squirrely]

There is a need for being strategic with long cast times. You can predict AI enemy movements and you can cast your spells to hit where they will move to. That being said, I greatly rely on Gust as a end all be all super spell that can infinitely guard the salvager with little effort. I find myself rarely using any damaging magic with a long cast time.

[Kate]

The slow spells definitely feel unpleasant to use in combat, but when you land them they work pretty well. Same goes for the bow skills with cast times, you just need to figure out where the enemy is going to be and drop it there. On some later enemies their turn delay is long enough that you can just cast before they move if you space your turns properly. The abilities that delay enemies' turns definitely help here, so does boxing enemies in.

[markelphoenix]

Just seems Cast Time + Mana Cost make the the least viable option when compared to insta cast options.

[markelphoenix]

I would actually prefer a system where the 'cast time' was actually a 'turn delay'. I.E. If you cast big mojo, it's effects are immediate, but it adds a delay to your next turn (Instead of it being 30 time units, it's now 35 time units till your next turn, for example)

[Greg_Murrell]

Your not totally wrong. Quick cast is a major benefit to Spell Archon, Scholar, or even Condensate and Shock Bolts. While Gatekeeper is a pretty poor class. On the other hand, Elementalist's Freeze is really, really good, despite the cast time and MP cost. (For Sorcerer, you really need the bigger AoE of Cyclone or a leveled up Blizzard).

I can't support a 'turn delay' though, as then you lose the option to Cancel/Distract spellcasting, or push/pull people out of the way of an attack. I'd rather see finer balance of the skills in question, perhaps a one-of-a-kind accessory for quicker casting (at a cost, like higher MP or something).

[markelphoenix]

Originally posted by Greg_Murrell:

Your not totally wrong. Quick cast is a major benefit to Spell Archon, Scholar, or even Condensate and Shock Bolts. While Gatekeeper is a pretty poor class. On the other hand, Elementalist's Freeze is really, really good, despite the cast time and MP cost. (For Sorcerer, you really need the bigger AoE of Cyclone or a leveled up Blizzard).

I can't support a 'turn delay' though, as then you lose the option to Cancel/Distract spellcasting, or push/pull people out of the way of an attack. I'd rather see finer balance of the skills in question, perhaps a one-of-a-kind accessory for quicker casting (at a cost, like higher MP or something).

I've actually been a fan of 'let me choose and pay the cost' systems. Only one I've seen do it, was the original Asheron's Call. Imagine being able to double cast time, but have 0 MP cost, or instant cast time and double MP cost, with variation in between (think a slider).

[Greg_Murrell]

It's ... an interesting concept, but not sure how the game would handle it, since its skills, or the game in general, wasn't designed from the ground-up with such a concept in mind.