What this game lacks is predictability and a way to make proper builds

[TeKett]

As things are right now we can only indirectly chose a weapon by restarting over and over again and get lucky.

Scrolls are too random and limited, often 2 runs never see any same scroll, since there are 158, and you only get about 20 of them. This makes each run just completely random and based on luck how far you get.

For ascension, you only get 1-2 on a single buff, and often have to pick something thats useless. We should be able to freely pick between all of them instead of just 3. There are 54 points you can possibly spend. On elite when you fight the third boss you have only been able to spend 14 of those and its 42.05% chance that you get 3 points in a single buff. Which personally has only happened once, with buffs im actually building towards, in my 64 runs since the reset. Like if i want to make a build around the grenades then i should be able to without having to get lucky. Let us chose if we want to build wide or tall, dont force us all to be wide.

Personally i wanted to play around the grenades with Tao, since she sends out swords with each hit. So i want to build around grenades and main ability, aka swords. After doing about 12 runs i only got the buff to cast swords on grande hits twice, thats 16.6% of my runs. When things went my way i was able to kill the second boss with only grenades.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2864164565

This leads to way too much unpredictability, sometimes you deal no damage, other times you kill bosses in literally 2 seconds.

Some boss attacks are so big or fast you cant dodge them unless you get lucky, golem stone pillars and boat canon specifically. So if you aint got something that heals you or recovers shield fast enough, or you deal enough damage to kill them before they can attack, then you die simply cus you cant dodge the attack since dodge distance is to small and you dont walk fast enough cus you have a heavy weapon. Li im pretty sure dont have enough health to take a single hit from the boat. Since i recently got one shot by it, like 5 seconds into the fight. I cleared the first damage phase with a single use of the primary skill, it shot and i tried to dodge, got hit and died, run over.

The difference in the bosses are also way to stark, like the boat is so damn difficult and annoying with its different phases compared the serpent who is just hard to hit and have way to much health, but you can take multiple hits from it, making the serpent fight way easier since you dont have to be perfect.

[letir]

If you failing Elite, regardless of scroll composition, problem is skill. Even solo Elite isn't that hard. Even mismatched build can win.

For harder difficulties it dosen't matter that much. If you know how to make good build and know your hero, eventually something strong would be made.

[TeKett]

İlk olarak letir tarafından gönderildi:

If you know how to make good build.

And how do you do that when the 158 scrolls are given to you at random? When all the weapon stats are completely random? When the ascensions are completely random?

[stealthXG]

İlk olarak TeKett tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak letir tarafından gönderildi:

If you know how to make good build.

And how do you do that when the 158 scrolls are given to you at random? When all the weapon stats are completely random? When the ascensions are completely random?

Play the game more, you haven't played enough to start complaining about this stuff because I rarely experience the issue that you're having.

[TeKett]

İlk olarak stealthXG tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak TeKett tarafından gönderildi:

And how do you do that when the 158 scrolls are given to you at random? When all the weapon stats are completely random? When the ascensions are completely random?

Play the game more, you haven't played enough to start complaining about this stuff because I rarely experience the issue that you're having.

All i see is just RNG, my choice of 3 matters so little that i possibly cant make a build, i can only get lucky that the scrolls and ascensions align. The more i play and the more the game gets updated, there is just more weapons and more scrolls giving me even less chance of getting what i want or need.

[ggAkatsukiP]

Tell you what, the more amount of useless ascension to your build, the more likely rng screwed up your build.

Tao grenade build is okay for difficulty Normal, Elite and Nightmare. You will discard this build when you got into Reincarnation.

Li is the same boat as Lei Luo (get Voltaic Aegis or get rekt when no defensive occult scroll), get Flame Talisman or get rekt.

[Yuri]

There are 158, and you only get about 20 of them.
20? Maybe for the speedrunners, definitely more than that for slow grinders like me.

And how do you do that when the 158 scrolls are given to you at random? When the ascensions are completely random?
We don't, we tryhards either just keep refreshing saves until we get what we want, or we just adapt it and move on, which the latter is what most of us do.

When all the weapon stats are completely random?
What is that even mean? I don't see inscription variation? nor I don't see 2 same model weapon one do 23-31 and another one do 1-50 as base damage?

This game is roguelite, remove randomness and let everyone build their exact "proper" build, this game would be ded long before you start complaining here.

[letir]

İlk olarak TeKett tarafından gönderildi:

And how do you do that when the 158 scrolls are given to you at random? When all the weapon stats are completely random? When the ascensions are completely random?

By picking stuff with best contribution to my build, or something which can be useful in the future, or somthing that's a part of brocken combo.

Higher levels of dificulty also give addtional challenges with more scrolls and goblets, and Reincarnation giving blessings (strong cornerstone for the build) and additional merchant.

Shaping build through the run is part of rogue- experience. You may not always have best possible build and all pieces together for 5 second boss wipe, but there is plenty enough to make something useful.

[lollars]

İlk olarak TeKett tarafından gönderildi:

Some boss attacks are so big or fast you cant dodge them unless you get lucky, golem stone pillars and boat canon specifically.

if you cant dodge something that is stationary maybe that is your problem

[Eudicots]

Don't start a run with a specific build in mind. Make a build as you go. With experience you will always be able to make something work regardless of what weapons, scrolls, ascension, and blessings are available. In higher difficulties you can reduce RNG for Ascensions with the blessing Ultimate gambler which lets you re-roll the goblet.

You don't need to max out ascensions for your build to work. For the vast majority of skills you will only need 1-2 upgrades into it since synergy will have a larger effect. Trying to commit an entire run to only a few ascensions will lead to more problems.

The Tao build you are going for sucks in Normal, Elite, Nightmare. Once you reach reincarnation you can use the blessing Ice Blades to make it viable. In fact fatal bloom in general should be avoided till you reach Reincarnation where it makes up some of the strongest builds.

Every boss attack can be dodge regardless of your speed. This will just take practice. Golem's stone pillars glow before they blow up and when he summons then there are red circles on the ground. Just pay attention and dodge as needed. You can also stay at the entrance of the boss arena since stone pillars do not spawn in the far back. The boat Elysian Artillery in the first phase of the fight is predictable. Dodge forward or backwards since this attack is always a straight line. In the 2nd phase just keep moving since this attack is scattered when you see the indicators just avoid or dodge out of it. attacks from the Main Cannon can just be shot down so there is no need to dodge.

Everyone finds different bosses easier. I find the Boat easier than the serpent mainly because I have more experience fighting than boat.

Dealing with randomness is the nature of rogues. If you really have a problem with this then this genre isn't for you.

[Prof]

Tldr: rogue-lik(t)e is too rng, boo hoo

[TeKett]

İlk olarak Yuri tarafından gönderildi:

There are 158, and you only get about 20 of them.
20? Maybe for the speedrunners, definitely more than that for slow grinders like me.

And how do you do that when the 158 scrolls are given to you at random? When the ascensions are completely random?
We don't, we tryhards either just keep refreshing saves until we get what we want, or we just adapt it and move on, which the latter is what most of us do.

When all the weapon stats are completely random?
What is that even mean? I don't see inscription variation? nor I don't see 2 same model weapon one do 23-31 and another one do 1-50 as base damage?

This game is roguelite, remove randomness and let everyone build their exact "proper" build, this game would be ded long before you start complaining here.

Can you even get scrolls that dont just drop randomly from the gem thing unless you go into the secrets?

Weapons only have fixed dmg but the buffs are random, sure they have fixed values, but if you generate 10 of the same weapon non of them are going to be identical.

Randomness is a fine line. To much and it removes the ability of choice, and all you can do is pray to RNGsus. To little and the game becomes static. This game has to much randomness, and a lack of choice. RoR2 has the same issue only rather then limiting the amount of items, they give you a million of each. which leads to the same lack of choice, there's nothing i can do to affect my build.

This means that the moment i turn on the game its outside of my control and im just along for the ride.

Why should i ever turn down a scroll? If i pick up everything im given, then the only thing that can change what i have is RNG. The only choice is to pick it up, there is only one option. And at that point what is the meaning of RNG in the first place, if choices dont matter. Sure i can adapt, but when the hand im delt is ♥♥♥♥ even after a swap cards, all i can do is fold.

I understand this feels like im attacking you, but im not, you can accept the game has faults, it wont hurt you in any way.

[Rugged Lemmings]

Wow. Talk about utterly missing the point of not just this game, but the roguelite genre in general.

Runs/builds being entire based off of RNG is the entire point of a roguelite. It really isn't that difficult at all to get a crazy strong build in this game, all you need to know is your character's playstyle and strengths, then lean into those. Do you get screwed sometimes? Sure, but that comes with the genre. Simply put: you're not meant to win every time.

Regarding the free weapon from the beginning box: just grab something, you don't need an optimal weapon here and the chances of you finding one are slim anyways. Also chances are you're going to be swapping it out within the first few rooms anyway, so there's really no need to concern yourself with it.

Regarding scrolls: yeah...again, that's kinda the point. You're not supposed to reach Apex Optimum Super God Perfect Build every single run. The point of a roguelite is to do the best you can with the hand you're dealt. Take luck from the RNG and supplement it with skill in your play and scroll choices.

Regarding ascensions: see above. Sounds to me like you're wanting to play a shooter RPG with standard progression and a skill tree to fill out. This isn't Borderlands, famalicious.

Regarding Tao's flower build: above all your biggest issue is that you're trying to force builds in a game that isn't going to let you do that. It's not a flaw in the game's design, it's a feature of roguelites. You can go into a run with a build in mind: "I wanna do a bunny flower build." The game is either going to let you do that or tell you to piss off. When it tells you to piss off is when you need to adapt. Accept that the build you wanted to do just isn't going to make it and pivot your build to flow with what the RNG is actually giving you.

Regarding the unpredictability of the game and in summation to all of the above, that's the entire point of a roguelite.

[Yuri]

1st of all, at least get 141 positive scrolls pool and cap talent tree

2nd, vaults drop 1-2, chest sells 0-1, peddler sells 0-2+, phantom peddler sells 1-2, event drops 0-1 by the time you unlocked everything and at least playing reincarnation 1

3rd, having weapon with 3 legendaries won't auto win your game, and weapon with 5 green doesn't mean its pure ♥♥♥♥ either.

4th, have fun after picking up paranormal activity+flesh of bone, then you will begin to understand why you don't pick every scroll you see

5th, yes every difficulty have a dps baseline, doesn't mean you are totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥ if your weapon and scrolls are subpar, maybe you are if its r8, still you can end mid run all you want, none of us would be bothered.

6th, what choice do you want in exact? you want to pick whatever you want when you use the goblet?

[TeKett]

İlk olarak Rugged Lemmings tarafından gönderildi:

Wow. Talk about utterly missing the point of not just this game, but the roguelite genre in general.

Runs/builds being entire based off of RNG is the entire point of a roguelite. It really isn't that difficult at all to get a crazy strong build in this game, all you need to know is your character's playstyle and strengths, then lean into those. Do you get screwed sometimes? Sure, but that comes with the genre. Simply put: you're not meant to win every time.

Regarding the free weapon from the beginning box: just grab something, you don't need an optimal weapon here and the chances of you finding one are slim anyways. Also chances are you're going to be swapping it out within the first few rooms anyway, so there's really no need to concern yourself with it.

Regarding scrolls: yeah...again, that's kinda the point. You're not supposed to reach Apex Optimum Super God Perfect Build every single run. The point of a roguelite is to do the best you can with the hand you're dealt. Take luck from the RNG and supplement it with skill in your play and scroll choices.

Regarding ascensions: see above. Sounds to me like you're wanting to play a shooter RPG with standard progression and a skill tree to fill out. This isn't Borderlands, famalicious.

Regarding Tao's flower build: above all your biggest issue is that you're trying to force builds in a game that isn't going to let you do that. It's not a flaw in the game's design, it's a feature of roguelites. You can go into a run with a build in mind: "I wanna do a bunny flower build." The game is either going to let you do that or tell you to piss off. When it tells you to piss off is when you need to adapt. Accept that the build you wanted to do just isn't going to make it and pivot your build to flow with what the RNG is actually giving you.

Regarding the unpredictability of the game and in summation to all of the above, that's the entire point of a roguelite.

Im not saying to make everything predictable and being able to chose everything. If A is random, but i get to chose B, then i can make it it match even if its not what i like. But if both are random then only luck will determine if they match or not, or be completely and utterly useless.

If what the people here argue that you adapt to what you are given, which is a wide random set, then was it really the scrolls that made you win? If it was the random scrolls that made you win, then it was luck; If it wasn't the scrolls that made you win, then the scrolls are useless, no?

I seriously lack the ability to see what i can do to adapt.

Using other rougelikes as examples are really bad since allot of them handle RNG way better. Hades only lets you pick 4 and then give you further upgrades for said 4, so even if you dont get to pick between all of them, you do get to specialise in them and build tall, and replaying isnt just the game but the actual story driven mechanic. Binding of isacc has so much synergies between items so every run is unique and wacky, and there are several ways to reroll items. In dead cells you pick red or purple upgrades (just pure damage) based on what weapons you find, then you just got to git gud, and same as hades replaying is what drives the story, not just the pool of items. Diablo clones are considered rougelites. Even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dwarf fortress is a rougelike. Id even say xcom is a rougelite. This list can go on but you get my point.

[The Wrinkled Dinkler]

this is probably the worst take i've read about gunfire reborn.