how is momo broken?(not defending just a question)

[Alas a Gato]

idk when i play her i have to fight tooth and nail to get through a run, i hear she is goku and clear stages super fast but like i had better luck with LI the firefox browser, am i missing something? (reincarnation 4-7 i sure as hell not mentally prepared for my rng in a 9 run)

[Silverwing]

After playing Momo for a little bit, I have noticed that he is pretty damn near invincible when in his inkform. If built right, I think it's possible to stay in that form damn near indefinitely. But that's just from my observations by playing him only a handful of times.

[Danish]

A mix of 3 things.

Speed, survivability, & damage.

Properly built, momo can stay in spirit form for a majority of the time. You;re also de facto invincible here, as you have massive damage reduction (and are death gated, as you literally can't die, fatal damage reduces duration)

with the right ascensions + skill damage, momo can also pump big numbers just by existing (the ink aura with domain expansion + the skill that leaves DOT damage scales incredibly high with the ascension that makes skill damage x crit scale)

and last but not least, speed. Even when other characters may match momo's damage, it doesn't matter because this little ferret manages to skate across the map 4 times in the span of the time you make it there once.


Really cool character, but somewhat shoddy translation + an oddly detailed kit make it a pain at the start.

[Geardo]

In addition if you see a Staff weapon, you get it and try to keep it through the run raising it at the Craftsman

Firefly is the best, when in Ink Form, it auto fires even though you are not holding it

I hear the other does too but not tried yet

Star Ring might also work, not tried that either

[Losk Osmanthus 路渐秋凉]

when i play her

when others play her

[Alas a Gato]

Originally posted by Losk Osmanthus 路渐秋凉:

when i play her

when others play her

i cant help but feel like this, like i get the speed down but not the insane kill time i hear people talk about

[Danish]

Originally posted by Electric Sheepster:

Originally posted by Losk Osmanthus 路渐秋凉:

when i play her

when others play her

i cant help but feel like this, like i get the speed down but not the insane kill time i hear people talk about

I want to say it's a lot about the luck of ascensions, but the subreddit apparently had someone release a video with base pistol + as few scrolls as possible (and adding cursed scrolls) and still beat r9 lol.

[Miz]

Originally posted by Danish:

Originally posted by Electric Sheepster:

i cant help but feel like this, like i get the speed down but not the insane kill time i hear people talk about

I want to say it's a lot about the luck of ascensions, but the subreddit apparently had someone release a video with base pistol + as few scrolls as possible (and adding cursed scrolls) and still beat r9 lol.

On that, if you notice they have stacked missions from above as well as 4 curse scrolls from interdependant fortunes to debuff the boss, and in lonewolf mode which doesn't scale enemy hp/dmg only makes more enemies/more elites spawn, while giving you an additional free blessing, meaning, it's not as genuine as it seems, especially with how specific the selected ascensions are ontop of the Spiritual Link.

Link wise the curse scrolls are causing misfortune aura, which gives enemies within a set range 25% damage vulnerability, and 25% decrease in damage done. The effects of the fortunes scrolls are
Moldy Bun - Enemy hp is random genned at 50%-90% normal value (for this, we'll assume 90%)
Broken Gun - Enemies have a 15% chance to only do 1 dmg
Cowardly Bully - Enemies deal 30% less damage if player has more than 80% total hp
Clumsy Throw - When enemies are defeated, player gets +50% skill damage for 3 seconds

Blessings are giving him +900% extra final damage with ink in the domain (+25% for every 30% increased move speed) and +200%-1400% bonus ink splash (ink form attack) damage, as well as the double exhilaration effect and regenning scrolls ever 3 seconds, +300% Weapon & Skill Damage, -50% Cool Down, +50% move speed, +50 Max HP/Shield

Asensions are doing the following
+600% Ink Damage and ink damage puts a 100% damage vuln to ink on target (max one marked target
Ink DoT, stacking 2x and dealing 300 dps per stack (might not seem like alot, but it's still an extra 600 ink dmg per second, which I think does get affected by other ink damage ups)
+40% damage dealt, -30% damage taken, per stack (max 4) when picking up ink orbs
Ink Domain counts as Blank Domain, enemies take 50% more damage in blank domain and momo deals +30% damage per enemy in blank domain
+15% Scroll size and +2 ink points on use
-50% damage dealt and -40% speed for enemies in blank domain
+60% move speed in blank domain and +1% damage for every 1.5% bonus move speed
+40% Lucky Shot chance (grinding ink t2 with 2 stacks)
+50% Ink Point generation and in ink form/4s after it, all areas traveled are made into blank domain
+40 shield and +50% shield recharge rate while in Ink Domain

So, at the end of all this, when in Ink form, he would be doing the following (at 30 ink)
225*900 to 365*900 upfront, non critical damage if my math is right so 202,500 - 328,500 damage -PER- Ink Splash, which, I'm not sure if it can crit/what the crit multiplier would be, and that's without taking in the 25% increased damage taken effect from the curse scroll spirit link.

The build in that video is mega stacked to maximize DPS output of Ink Splash, plus, the fact that damage numbers are turned off, and, the damage totals for the entire run are so low makes me think something else is amis in that video

[Asakura Shinichi]

Originally posted by Silverwing:

After playing Momo for a little bit, I have noticed that he is pretty damn near invincible when in his inkform. If built right, I think it's possible to stay in that form damn near indefinitely. But that's just from my observations by playing him only a handful of times.

Is that not the point of roguelite games? The find a broken build and try to use it? I dont know what people are talking about complaining, ive played enough roguelites to see that it was the case in all of them.

[Losk Osmanthus 路渐秋凉]

Originally posted by Asakura Shinichi:

Is that not the point of roguelite games? The find a broken build and try to use it? I dont know what people are talking about complaining, ive played enough roguelites to see that it was the case in all of them.

You are missing the point. It is not about PvE where a spiffing brit can easily claim that everything is balanced with no exploits whatsoever.

It is when your dear lottery-winning friend impatiently waiting for you at the end of the game as if you were not doing your best already. They give you 30 seconds to pack up and go and induce anxiety when you are carefully making your choice in a rogue like maze.

In the end, that one team mate monopolized all the fun. The word monopolized is used here because they turned the game into a zero-sum competition where winner must takes all. If you don't realized how wrong this is, think about real life.

Grand sons visit grandma. The grandma always bake more cookies than they could eat. Everyone left delighted. One of the son eat the most the cookies, but the rest always have their fills too. Time pass on, the grandsons' appetite grow bigger, and old granny couldn't keep up with the baking. One day, the cookies on the table is no longer enough. At that point, the polite social cultural dominated the table since. The grandsons have come up rules to divide or share the cookies so everyone still feel respected. That is...until someone doesn't. A family feud soon follows and everything just falls apart. So they decided to settle this with lottery, whoever draw that one ticket will eat most of cookies. At least, they say, it is fair to everyone --- until they found a cheater among them who managed to exploit the system. It is almost a endless skepticism, but eventually everyone quit eating cookies and finally the problem solved itself.

There are plenty fish in the sea. Fishermen go after the fish. Initially everyone uses hand reeling, and everyone can catch until until their hearts' content. Soon, new technology is introduced. One fishermen managed to catch more fish than everyone else using nets. Everyone praised him for his cleverness. Years passed on, there are more aggressive fishing developed than eco system could handle. Many fishermen start to come back from the sea empty handed. The fishermen society becomes discontent. One person start to accuse another for 'stealing' fishing practice. The defender says that it is only fair, since the fish is a common resource. Just like the story above, new social rules are invented. Fishing ground becomes territorial claimed by different counties and industrial fishing is forbidden off season. Essentially, the only solution is to have more fish and less fish-men. This led to many fishermen go through painful career changes.

If a market demand is expanding beyond supply could keep up, it is only natural to make a kill bonanza out of the profit. If a market is shrinking and the suppliers are going bankrupt, the supplier would be at each other's throat. The competition start to be filled with sore losers. When that happens, the dying supplier would leave the market.

In this game, everyone is supplying damage, but as you can see, the market of damage is fixed. One supplies more means others have to supply less. Therefore, many players would introduce social rules trying to manage the random players who barely have any sympathy toward each other. Guess how much this is like the stories above? There are 'clever' players managed to output more damage by attacking invulnerable enemies. Since enemies won't die, the damage meter would go above. However, everyone knows those surplus damage do absolutely no contribution whatsoever. People instead grow a long neck and hope a new DLC or something would expand the market. Or...go solo. Forget about the multiplayers, just own the entire stock. Alternatively, time to quit the game.

Of course, many players are not here just to do damage. Still, what if that one player just give you 30 seconds appreciate your art, read your weapon and navigate choices in true of rogue-like nature?

It is not about equality, but equity!

[Asakura Shinichi]

1. Not reading this wall of text.
2. Even if it would be shorted i just needed that one word at the end to discard the whole thing you said.

[931numbers]

Originally posted by Asakura Shinichi:

Is that not the point of roguelite games? The find a broken build and try to use it? I dont know what people are talking about complaining, ive played enough roguelites to see that it was the case in all of them.

Thing about broken builds is, usually in other games they require good luck to combine just the right pieces together, and then you can go absolutely crazy on every enemy. They're rare (or require good skill and knowledge to get hard to reach bonus loot), which makes them special and a thrill to use because your power isn't normal.

In Gunfire Reborn, this "broken build" can be as simple as picking a hero and getting a guaranteed blessing. Where's the thrill in that? You'd have to pretend that dealing 10 times an enemy's health in damage somehow took effort to achieve, instead of being spoonfed to you. Kinda defeats the point of roguelite games if broken builds are normal.

Worse still is when it comes to multiplayer. Because someone can kill everything so easily with a broken build, all it takes to win is them alone. Neither you or the other teammates are needed, and if they're going fast enough, you can't do anything useful either. Kinda defeats the point of roguelite games if you can't play.

[Losk Osmanthus 路渐秋凉]

Originally posted by Asakura Shinichi:

1. Not reading this wall of text.
2. Even if it would be shorted i just needed that one word at the end to discard the whole thing you said.

I get it, you are not really asking question for an answer. All the same, just here to shoot bullets.

[Asakura Shinichi]

Originally posted by Losk Osmanthus 路渐秋凉:

Originally posted by Asakura Shinichi:

1. Not reading this wall of text.
2. Even if it would be shorted i just needed that one word at the end to discard the whole thing you said.

I get it, you are not really asking question for an answer. All the same, just here to shoot bullets.

Was a rhetorical question.

[Geardo]

Some people want to feel like they contributed to doing something, not stand around and watch 1 person do it all

This is similar to what has happened and continues in The First Descendant where certain characters get complaints about doing almost everything so well at times that teammates cannot participate