First boss seems like a huge difficulty spike in coop

[Delta]

My friend and I have been making decent headway through the normal encounters but the first boss feels like a ridiculous difficulty spike. It feels like every attack requires a well-timed dodge yet his attacks always seemed to come out faster than my dodge ability was regenerating.

Damage aside his health seems ridiculously high. I speced for lightning damage last game with a lightning-enhanced grenade launcher but that only did chip damage to his health, as did the slow-firing orb weapon I had with me. My friend and I repeatedly drained all his shields only for him to regenerate all of it and summon waves of minions each time.

Maybe it's better solo but as it stands the boss feels ridiculously punishing, and it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of new players were put off by the massive wall they encounter a short way in. Saying "git gud" is all very well but the process of getting good needs to be fun and encouraging, yet many of the game's mechanics seems set up to be discourage players (upgrade points don't carry over between runs and using a revive only to get pasted leaves you without enough to buy anything). The fact that revivals cost you progression really discourages players from getting up and having another go then a boss stomps on them.

It honestly worries me that lots of players will get put off and just refund the game before the two hours elapses, which would be a shame because there's some good stuff here.

[Ragemonkey]

Timing is every thing. don't dodge the second you see the template, do it as the projectile is coming. Can be literally a 20-30 second fight even on elite if done correctly and with reasonable gear.

Also use the pillars in the room. They block the projectiles, his jump and can do so several times. Only one person has agro so the other should be slamming him and watching for any unseen bomb heads that come near the agroed player.

Also don't forget, you are not supposed to win each round, it's a rogue-lite, failing is part of the progression. the extra shields and damage you can get can make a huge difference to a run. So far I have been able to hard carry 2 players through elite, not always pretty but doable if you have put in the work. Yes I am over lvl110 but that came from a ton of wipes and picking up a new perk , I certainly didn't start out strong enough and still wasn't several runs in. But you do get there.

[Ragemonkey]

Should put that I am an AU player and happy to help you out, just send me a request and a msg about why you are hitting me up and we can smash a few run's , do some elite to get you a few unlocks that may help out that you normally can't have yet.

[Psyjinx]

I'm currently level 118. I ate so many deaths to the first boss starting out with my friend in co-op. It's difficult at first, but trust me... The higher the level you become, the more insane you'll be. Not just from the stat upgrades, but from raw experience.

If your friends are going down too often, they need to learn the encounter.

You need to realize that with the first boss, the majority of his HP is raw Health, with a very small shield. Lightning weapons will chip through the shield no problem, but fire damage really hurts his feelings. If killing him is your goal in co-op, have a friend take one element, and you'll take the other. This leads to some interesting effects as well.

Make sure you're utilizing your decay grenades alongside other elemental weapon types to proc synergy effects.

Shock + Decay = Miasma (Spreading Damage Over Time To Health)
Fire + Decay = Explosive (AoE Bursts of Raw Damage)
Shock + Fire = Confusion (Enemies aggro other enemies)

You will naturally read him better over time. I highly recommend pushing for the "Soul Pouch" upgrade, allowing you to carry over essence to a new run, or save for high cost upgrades.

One more thing... Stop reviving. You need the talents more than a good run early on. You'll get good naturally. You don't have to really "try". That's why this game is so damn good.

*edit* Feel free to add me. I don't mind farming the first boss 4-5 times to help you get some quick talents. I'm Central US.

[Delta]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice guys, glad to hear there's a way to carry over essence between runs, hope it's not too far up the tree.

I'll probably stick to playing with my friend (I'm in the UK anyway so hours might not match up :) but I appreciate the offers of help. Thanks and take care!

[Droolguy]

I am going to come straight out and say first boss is outright impossible without luck or grinding levels.

I just ran the best run I could possibly do, stacking multiple damage mods, landing nearly entirely headshots, with electric damage, and successfully dodging every single attack in which dodge was actually available, using the pillars as cover.

The character outright does not move fast enough as a base line to get out of his "I just walk up to you and smack you in the face".

[Delta]

I do have to agree that the character doesn't feel fast enough. Your normal movement feels kind of sluggish without dashing, yet you can't afford to dash as every single attack from the boss requires it to be off cooldown. I think a slightly faster base movement or a faster dash regen would be nice. Maybe Doom has spoiled me but the simple act of moving doesn't feel good in that instinctive way something like Tracer in Overwatch or the Slayer in Doom does.

I realise bosses would be too easy if you could just circle-strafe them to death but at the moment it feels like you basically have to plan your moves and manage your cooldowns extremely carefully not to get pounded into the dire.

[Atma]

Just give it some more time and come back to this thread when you've played a bit more and see if you still feel the same way.

I say this because the bosses felt daunting the first few times for my wife and I, but after some experience (both practical and soul-wise), they are easy peasy now.

[Droolguy]

Still feel the same way, done the first boss over a dozen times at this point.

Boss boils down to...
"Did you get movement speed bonuses?" Yes, slow win.
"Did you get significant damage bonuses as well?" Yes, faster win.

If both of those are no, then I have seen groups of level 60 plus players wipe on him.

This game has too much RNG to be enjoyable in the long term as if you get ♥♥♥♥ rolls there is simply nothing you can do about it regardless of how good you are.

The RPG system is simply there to try and pad what would be an otherwise broken itemization scheme.

Granted, early access, and the concept is quite fun. I just hope they fix it.

[hotmatrixx]

I made a new account and played through as a Level 1; I've beaten the first boss 3 times in a row.
I recorded it, if you care I can post it online.

It's about game knowledge.

[Dani3009]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Droolguy:

Still feel the same way, done the first boss over a dozen times at this point.

Boss boils down to...
"Did you get movement speed bonuses?" Yes, slow win.
"Did you get significant damage bonuses as well?" Yes, faster win.

If both of those are no, then I have seen groups of level 60 plus players wipe on him.

This game has too much RNG to be enjoyable in the long term as if you get ♥♥♥♥ rolls there is simply nothing you can do about it regardless of how good you are.

The RPG system is simply there to try and pad what would be an otherwise broken itemization scheme.

Granted, early access, and the concept is quite fun. I just hope they fix it.

You can dodge every attack of him ^^

[dHeX ⛤]

I have beaten him with only foundry and no scrolls, though I'm 120, I might try again on a new account and see how I fair.

My point is it's just knowledge, keep trying and watch for his specific animations and learn timings, you'll break through eventually.

[HoneyDruid]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Droolguy:

Still feel the same way, done the first boss over a dozen times at this point.

Boss boils down to...
"Did you get movement speed bonuses?" Yes, slow win.
"Did you get significant damage bonuses as well?" Yes, faster win.

If both of those are no, then I have seen groups of level 60 plus players wipe on him.

This game has too much RNG to be enjoyable in the long term as if you get ♥♥♥♥ rolls there is simply nothing you can do about it regardless of how good you are.

The RPG system is simply there to try and pad what would be an otherwise broken itemization scheme.

Granted, early access, and the concept is quite fun. I just hope they fix it.

No, it doesn't boil down to RNG. RNG can help but player knowledge of bosses is more important. Knowing when and how to dodge (you do realize you can move in different directions in mid air? What game does that in 2020 - it is so fun!) Leveling up your damage along with your survival makes the game pretty easy.

Decay+Shock = Dead Bosses pretty quick. I just killed him with Fire+Shock...no issues.

[hotmatrixx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gamer Greybeard:

Decay+Shock = Dead Bosses pretty quick. I just killed him with Fire+Shock...no issues.

If you can proc fire/shock on him, it's a fusion called 'manipulation' - I call it confusion - he will chase you without attacking, usually

[hotmatrixx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dHeX:

I have beaten him with only foundry and no scrolls, though I'm 120, I might try again on a new account and see how I fair.

My point is it's just knowledge, keep trying and watch for his specific animations and learn timings, you'll break through eventually.

If you exit, then on the 'quit to desktop' confirmation, press 'archive' you can start a new save slot.
Don't delete your main one by accident tho.

[dHeX ⛤]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย hotmatrixx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย dHeX:

I have beaten him with only foundry and no scrolls, though I'm 120, I might try again on a new account and see how I fair.

My point is it's just knowledge, keep trying and watch for his specific animations and learn timings, you'll break through eventually.

If you exit, then on the 'quit to desktop' confirmation, press 'archive' you can start a new save slot.
Don't delete your main one by accident tho.

I managed it, kinda, annoyed I died, might try again another time.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2133141479