Why did RTS genre die?

[Captain n00by]

RTS genre used to be huge on PC years ago, this was one of the most popular "PC style" games out there, and the consoles also got ports of these games (although for some it might be unfanthomable to play a RTS with gamepad).

So why exactly did the "base building" RTS genre basically die off?

When we look RTS games today, they're either "real time tactics" stuff like Total War and without base building aspect, or they're "4X grand strategy", which is basically turn-based stuff like Civa, so not really RTS.

Games like Command & Conquer, WarCraft, StarCraft, etc, used to be super popular, but today, games like this are a tiny niche (I know some WW1 themed one was released in recent times but not much more).

Why is this so?

[Nyerguds]

It didn't "die". Companies just started realising that just because StarCraft exists doesn't mean the overall RTS format is automatically suitable for E-sports.

And if you look around, there are actually quite a few new ones around.

[van Grunz]

Originally posted by Nyerguds:

And if you look around, there are actually quite a few new ones around.

Indeed there're some other games like Planetary Annihilation as a successor for Supreme Commander, to name one.

On the other hand, it's difficult to earn money in a genre that is mostly saturated with ideas. See C&C titles: there are so many...

[Bluebeak]

There's 3 main reasons.
"The RTS is one of the more expensive genres to develop. They always require extensive post launch support and players are also extremely sensitive to balancing."
"the RTS doesn't port to console easily"
"you can't monetize it as easily as an FPS"

Two of these on their own doesn't necessarily doom a genre. Like mmorpgs are the first two. However having 3 altogether makes publishers hesitate before greenlighting. The last one in particular was the reason why Blizzard abandoned the RTS after Starcraft 2 since they couldn't motivate people to buy skins for units or profile pictures.

Originally posted by Nyerguds:

It didn't "die". Companies just started realising that just because StarCraft exists doesn't mean the overall RTS format is automatically suitable for E-sports.

And if you look around, there are actually quite a few new ones around.

It did die. The RTS went from "There's a major high budget tentpole release every few years" to "there are no tentpole releases. Every RTS is an indie game". We went from EA releasing several RTS's all on the same engine for a decade to releasing no RTS's outside of C&C Remastered.

[Crypto Gamer]

Much easier to make an FPS or coop shooter,survival coop stuff as they are more popular and easier to monetise.

Eg here is the new char for 5 euros in any coop survival game.



It is extremely hard to compete againts SC 2 very strong pathfinding and polish+balance in an RTS genre.


In fact most RTS games are from ancient times.

Starcraft 1,Warcraft 3 Age of empires 2 even if they got reworked.
And SC 2.

Maybe AOE 4 become okay.

COH 2 still played by many.....(more than COH 3......)

Just look at the player count of DOTA or CSGO versus any RTS game.


So Most RTS games that try to be E sports eg. Tib War,Red alert all failed.(EA abbandoned them fast without any fixes).

RTS is a much more complex game if an avg. teenager has 5 second attention span.

Back in the day people had stronger attention spans and there were less game to choose from.

How many will learn an RTS versus some simple games which designed so you get your dopamine hit every 10 seconds.

And buy some 20 euro skins so other think you are the "cool kid".

Much harder to sell that in an RTS versus just a simple different skinned gun which takes 5 minutes to code in.


There are people who spend 10-500 thousand dollars in"conviniences".
You can not do that in an RTS.


PVP wise RTS is extremely hard eg.chance to get wrist injuries long-term as you need insane APMS.

So even if you are"smart"you need very strong mechanical skills too to be an Esport.


So yeah still RTS is alive just much more nieche.

Funny enough WC3 mod Defence of the Ancients(DOTA) spawned the MOBAS which replaced many RTS games as the the barrier to entry is much less and it is fun.

Also DOW 3 failed.
COH 3 failed.

I played homeworld 3 demo it is likely going to fail unless they seriously redesign the game as it is like a mobile game for 10-15 mins fast sessions........(for the "wider audience"with low attention spans.....).


Many RTS games want to sell themselves to the "wider audience"(more $$$) and many RTS players hate stuff getting dumped down....

And in general some AAA games getting lower quality.(all genres)

Look at soldiers animations from COH 1(2006) vs COH 3(2023).

COH 1 has better animations despite being much older and the technology back then was 2 core CPU.......and we had no AI........

Arkham Knight from 2015 on unreal engine 3 looks better than most Recent KDSS game from 2024......



Now there are kinda many good indie RTS game filling their nieche and not going for the next Starcraft E-sport game and fail hard.

So RTS games are still alive but they are often nieche indie ones made for a certain audience.

Eg.They are billions,Starship Terran command,Frostpunk.


Now Frostgiant likely want to do sometthing big with their RTS game we will see.

Many RTS players are STARVING for a high quality AAA RTS game.


To be honest many RTS games could benefit from a remaster.

Eg.Red alert 2,Dawn of war 1.

[Franss the Coffee Addict]

MOBA happen
EA say we need MOBA
Westwood making C&C4, advertised as next RTS
Game release, look inside, is no RTS
No

[Bluebeak]

The MOBA genre is also slowly dying. Its likely going to be seen as just a trend.

The main reason developers pivoted toward MOBAs is because it was easier to sell Microtransactions in. However there have been an untold number of MOBA failures and companies after that pivoted to Battle Royale games.

[opsi]

They didn't die. The proof is we are all here, ready to play C&C again. Age of Empires 2 is still massive, and despite blizzard's efforts, warcraft 3 has an internationally devout fanbase.

[Garrec]

Similar problems as other genres, I think. Early RTS games like C&C, Warcraft, and possibly even Starcraft were simple to pick up and play. Simple graphics, simple interface, simple concepts.

Lots of emphasis on story, too. In the early days, RTS was primarily singleplayer. Multiplayer was a luxury. Campaigns were interesting and simple enough for new players to learn, and enjoy the gameplay.

Build some troops, point and click, watch the fighting on screen. The "tower defense" nature was also appealing. Remember that genre? Finding the best locations for defenses, struggling against waves of enemies until you amass enough of your own army to fight back. Whether it was a struggle to win, or steamrolling the enemy, both could be satisfying.

Game studios like Westwood and Blizzard were well known, games had more momentum when they launched. Remember the excitement that people had for new C&C games back then? Starcraft 2? It was huge.

With the rise of e-sports and online competition, simplistic games couldn't flourish. Multiplayer and proper faction balancing were now the primary concerns. Unit compositions and upgrades became more complex. Resource economies, macromanagement, even graphics became more complex. The players and fans were much more hardcore. Games had to be good enough, popular enough, to energize competitive tournaments. To keep people playing and watching. The more momentum a game had, the less people wanted to play other games in the genre.

I think MOBAs rose up because they filled some of the gaps in RTS gameplay. Specifically multiplayer teams. RTS teams usually involve ganging up on a single person. The weakest player, weakest faction, weakest build order. Whatever it takes to knock them out of the game, because defeating one player early means that victory is usually assured. MOBAs simplify the early game. Dispensing with build orders and basic uptime to produce fighting units. Lets players have a fighting chance right from the start. To respawn their hero instead of getting defeated entirely.

[Mr.Fish]

zoomers don't have the attention span for games that require any element of thought.

[Bluebeak]

It's worth noting in the context of strategy games RTS's got hit the hardest. 4X strategy games by comparison flourished largely because they require significantly less budget to make. So it's not as big of an ask compared to an RTS.

[Hurt Me Plenty]

Originally posted by Crypto Gamer:

Now Frostgiant likely want to do sometthing big with their RTS game we will see.

I tested it out and honestly it wasn't a good game. It's much, much way below what Starcraft 2 was 15 years ago. It's some kind of Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 mix but it fails miserably on every single step. The graphics seems to be old for 2024 and too much anime style, the factions seems to be extremely boring with not really any units depth, spells or skills, literally it's just not as fast as Starcraft 2 and has less units like Warcraft 3 - just without the spells which make the gameplay extremely boring. Gameplay is like half-Starcraft, half-Warcraft but below both of them.

Originally posted by Crypto Gamer:

Many RTS players are STARVING for a high quality AAA RTS game.

That's true. I'm actually STARVING for a good RTS since Starcraft 2 (excluding remasters, read below).

Originally posted by Crypto Gamer:

To be honest many RTS games could benefit from a remaster.

Eg.Red alert 2,Dawn of war 1.

True. Honestly there are only 4 good RTS games available right now where 3 are the remasters.

Starcraft 2

and the remasters:
Starcraft Brood War Remastered
Command & Conquer Remastered
Age of Empires Remastered

[Ritsuka]

Originally posted by Bluebeak:

There's 3 main reasons.
"The RTS is one of the more expensive genres to develop. They always require extensive post launch support and players are also extremely sensitive to balancing."
"the RTS doesn't port to console easily"
"you can't monetize it as easily as an FPS"

Two of these on their own doesn't necessarily doom a genre. Like mmorpgs are the first two. However having 3 altogether makes publishers hesitate before greenlighting. The last one in particular was the reason why Blizzard abandoned the RTS after Starcraft 2 since they couldn't motivate people to buy skins for units or profile pictures.

Originally posted by Nyerguds:

It didn't "die". Companies just started realising that just because StarCraft exists doesn't mean the overall RTS format is automatically suitable for E-sports.

And if you look around, there are actually quite a few new ones around.

It did die. The RTS went from "There's a major high budget tentpole release every few years" to "there are no tentpole releases. Every RTS is an indie game". We went from EA releasing several RTS's all on the same engine for a decade to releasing no RTS's outside of C&C Remastered.

i didn't know COH, COH2, COH3 were indie, man someone might want to tell Sega they are an indie studio

[Nyerguds]

Honestly, this just happened to all genres. Even with 3D shooters, nowadays if a new one gets released it's just "yet another shooter game".

[Teratus]

it's not dead, it's just niche.

RTS will never have the success of things like FPS games or RPG's but it's still a great genre that deserves support.

Problem is many companies, AAA mainly.. don't want to make great games anymore, they want to make great profits.

So they spend their time trying to capitalise on what's popular and what makes the most money..
That's why we don't see new idea's and IP's from them so much anymore.
Just rehash the same crap over and over again.. slap as much live service crap into it and hope that people are dumb enough to pay ten times as much for a game that's not even half as good.

[Captain n00by]

Originally posted by Teratus:

RTS will never have the success of things like FPS games or RPG's but it's still a great genre that deserves support.

However, if, for example, Blizzard announced "War Craft IV" or "Star Craft 3", I'm pretty sure the "hype train" would be huge and game would sell in millions.

But it seems they now more focused on "online shooters" like Overwatch.