Ion cannon is WEAK SAUCE

[frostdiamond]

Can't even take out a Hand of Nod with a direct strike. What a joke. All one could do with is 1) take out a turret, or say 5 infantry clumping together in front of the Hand of Nod. Compared to the nuke, this cannon is garbage. And the story wants us to believe it took out the Temple of Nod?

And if I recall correctly, the Ion Cannon in Tib Sun is just as weak. It wasn't until Generals did we have a properly powerful orbital cannon that is the Particle Cannon.

[Kohchu]

The Ion Cannon's value, is that it can one shot Advanced Power Plants and Obelisks. Use it for this purpose.

The other big advantage, is GDI gets infinite uses of it, while Nod only gets 1 Nuke (well, in Single player anyway).

Alternately, you can use both the Ion Cannon and Air Strike together to basically 1 shot any building.

[frostdiamond]

Originally posted by Shadowlord90:

The Ion Cannon's value, is that it can one shot Advanced Power Plants and Obelisks. Use it for this purpose.

The other big advantage, is GDI gets infinite uses of it, while Nod only gets 1 Nuke (well, in Single player anyway).

Alternately, you can use both the Ion Cannon and Air Strike together to basically 1 shot any building.

In comparison, particle cannon from Generals is just vastly more powerful and menacing. Even the lightening storm is more useful than IC.

[Kohchu]

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

Originally posted by Shadowlord90:

The Ion Cannon's value, is that it can one shot Advanced Power Plants and Obelisks. Use it for this purpose.

The other big advantage, is GDI gets infinite uses of it, while Nod only gets 1 Nuke (well, in Single player anyway).

Alternately, you can use both the Ion Cannon and Air Strike together to basically 1 shot any building.

In comparison, particle cannon from Generals is just vastly more powerful and menacing. Even the lightening storm is more useful than IC.

Your point? C&C encourages you build up big armies to kick the door down.

The Ion Cannon is more specialised so players don't rely on it and spam it constantly. The Ion Cannon is support; not a weapon you're supposed to use to massively wreck the enemy.

You use it, to eliminate a key threat while kicking the door open.

[frostdiamond]

Originally posted by Shadowlord90:

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

In comparison, particle cannon from Generals is just vastly more powerful and menacing. Even the lightening storm is more useful than IC.

Your point? C&C encourages you build up big armies to kick the door down.

The Ion Cannon is more specialised so players don't rely on it and spam it constantly. The Ion Cannon is support; not a weapon you're supposed to use to massively wreck the enemy.

You use it, to eliminate a key threat while kicking the door open.

My point is they make it sound like a SUPER weapon when it's less powerful than a damn air strike. It's LAME.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

Originally posted by Shadowlord90:

The Ion Cannon's value, is that it can one shot Advanced Power Plants and Obelisks. Use it for this purpose.

The other big advantage, is GDI gets infinite uses of it, while Nod only gets 1 Nuke (well, in Single player anyway).

Alternately, you can use both the Ion Cannon and Air Strike together to basically 1 shot any building.

In comparison, particle cannon from Generals is just vastly more powerful and menacing. Even the lightening storm is more useful than IC.

The early C&C titles didn't lean too hard into special weapons and abilities like the later ones did. I would argue that this actually became something of a issue when you get into Generals, C&C3, and especially Red Alert 3 where the special weapons/abilities actually got too powerful and could take out entire advancing armies and even huge chunks of a base without any real effort.

[Kohchu]

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

Originally posted by Shadowlord90:

Your point? C&C encourages you build up big armies to kick the door down.

The Ion Cannon is more specialised so players don't rely on it and spam it constantly. The Ion Cannon is support; not a weapon you're supposed to use to massively wreck the enemy.

You use it, to eliminate a key threat while kicking the door open.

My point is they make it sound like a SUPER weapon when it's less powerful than a damn air strike. It's LAME.

Again, the value of it; is putting Nod in Low power, right before you kick the door open. They'll be panicking if they don't have their obelisks on because you hit their Advanced Power Plant and took it down in a single hit. Or, rather then putting units at risk; just shoot the obelisk to get rid of it.

[frostdiamond]

Originally posted by startrekmike:

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

In comparison, particle cannon from Generals is just vastly more powerful and menacing. Even the lightening storm is more useful than IC.

The early C&C titles didn't lean too hard into special weapons and abilities like the later ones did. I would argue that this actually became something of a issue when you get into Generals, C&C3, and especially Red Alert 3 where the special weapons/abilities actually got too powerful and could take out entire advancing armies and even huge chunks of a base without any real effort.

Pretty much. One of the most visually impressive and devastating super weapon is the Chinese nuclear missile in Generals. Now that's what I call a super weapon.

[Kohchu]

Originally posted by startrekmike:

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

In comparison, particle cannon from Generals is just vastly more powerful and menacing. Even the lightening storm is more useful than IC.

The early C&C titles didn't lean too hard into special weapons and abilities like the later ones did. I would argue that this actually became something of a issue when you get into Generals, C&C3, and especially Red Alert 3 where the special weapons/abilities actually got too powerful and could take out entire advancing armies and even huge chunks of a base without any real effort.

I was actually tempted to mention Red Alert 3. Honestly, why build defensive units; when you can vacuum enemy vehicles up, and then use them as ammo with the Orbital Drop to make their army your own super weapon. It is fun, don't get me wrong; but I find it's more about Super Weapons, and less about creative gameplay. By the end, you can destroy bases just spamming super weapons.

[John]

Use the Ion cannon on idle units, taking out a handful of bikes/tanks would be a huge benefit.

[Drain]

The value of the ion cannon isn't in 1 blast. It's in the fact that you can keep reusing it, again and again. Each shot is an obelisk/turret/tank poofed. Even groups of infantry or an advanced power plant isn't bad. I used to rush for this on the final GDI maps because having it sooner means more shots over time.

[morte]

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

And the story wants us to believe it took out the Temple of Nod?

It barely takes out 1/3 hp of temple on easy, lol.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by frostdiamond:

Originally posted by startrekmike:

The early C&C titles didn't lean too hard into special weapons and abilities like the later ones did. I would argue that this actually became something of a issue when you get into Generals, C&C3, and especially Red Alert 3 where the special weapons/abilities actually got too powerful and could take out entire advancing armies and even huge chunks of a base without any real effort.

Pretty much. One of the most visually impressive and devastating super weapon is the Chinese nuclear missile in Generals. Now that's what I call a super weapon.

I am not one to usually talk about things being "unbalanced" or "overpowered" because I tend to favor RTS's that allow players to explore and have fun even if that means that it isn't a great competitive experience in regards to balance. That being said, Generals started a trend in the franchise towards super weapons and abilities that were just too effective and made it too tempting to lean on them and not use your conventional units to win. Obviously you could choose not to use said weapons but that doesn't change that they were too effective and needed to be toned down a bit.

Sadly, after Battle for Middle Earth 1/2 came out, it became popular to lean HEAVILY on abilities that were not only grossly overpowered but also not tied to any building. Red Alert 3 was the purest expression of this with its level based ability system where you could put points into different abilities with no real way for your opponent to counter them or even prevent their usage through clever play.

Again. I don't tend to care about competitive level balance or anything like that. I just can't pretend that the super weapons did not get out of hand and became so powerful that it made other parts of the game less important and less fun.

[I am Goyim]

POINTLESS IN MP

[Garrec]

If we're just talking campaigns here, then of the super weapons in C&C and RA campaigns (ion cannon, nuke, chronoshift, iron curtain) I find the ion cannon is by far the most useful of the four just for its tactical use to erase key obelisks to open up for an attack. The Nod nuke is powerful, but if it's not a game-ending strike that cripples enemy production, it's wasted. Chronoshift and iron curtain have their moments, but they're largely a joke compared to the ion cannon. Yes the air strike is powerful, but it's locked away behind clearing SAM sites, and if you accomplish that you've basically won the mission anyway.