Did The AI always cheat this bad in the campaign?

[Reckless]

I'm on the last mission for GDI, been playing it for well over an hour.

No tiberian left, I control each and every Tib spaw. I've destroyed the last AI harvester.


I get nuked, wiping me back 2 mammoth tanks.

I'm doing my best to fight off and destroy the buildings at the first NOD base.

Their silos are empty.

I see a harvester on the east side of the map, it maybe fills up it's tanks 25% (which is about 175 credits)

It makes its way back into the base before my 2 mammoth tanks make it there. All of a sudden the NOD silos are full and a whole horde of enemies come at me.

I fight them down taking casualties, my 5 harvesters are stripping the map clean of Tib, but I can't keep up to the pace of the AI cheating which seemingly can build an entire army with 200 credits or less.


After about 90 minutes, They over run me.

Did the AI always cheat like hell with the credits? I remember C&C being really fair. But this is insane. It feels like I'm playing KKND or something.




TLDR: Did the AI always cheat with extra credits with such low amounts of Tib? Seems like a harvester 25-50% full can create enough credits to building an army and rebuild half a base.

[Reanimator]

You are fighting multiple AI 'players' on that particular map. They each have their own Economy and behavior I believe.

[Tuze]

I don't know, I'm gonna make a claim that this is a new thing, since the AI in this game seems to be worse than in original, so I think if this is a new thing it's to compensate for bad AI.

[MeltingPotOfFriendship]

Originally posted by Rekkless:

TLDR: Did the AI always cheat with extra credits with such low amounts of Tib? Seems like a harvester 25-50% full can create enough credits to building an army and rebuild half a base.

This was always part of the original game. Hell, I even have the origian C&C Brady Games guide and the producer more or less admitted to the AI "cheating" because the AI has to have *some* advantage against a human opponent. Otherwise, it would just get curb-stomped. And that's boring as hell. The AI has to be able to be given enough resources to achieve it's base goals to some extent. It's not going to just sit there and wait for you. Granted in some scenarios, the AI will have much more resources than you. But generally, in the initial ones, you both start the same. But the AI will have a leg up credits-wise. Otherwise, you could simply rush it with your starting units and wreck them.

[EnRedshirt]

Yes, yes it did. I was about to make a post commenting on how they managed to include all the bugs from the original DOS version throughout all the games iterations to this release.

[Camper]

have the same feeling that something is off maybe they fixed some stuff that was broken back in the original game
cant remember i had that much trouble in some of the missions as a kid

[Reckless]

Originally posted by Reanimator:

You are fighting multiple AI 'players' on that particular map. They each have their own Economy and behavior I believe.

But even so it doesn't make sense. Their silos were empty. They weren't building anything. They have no harvester.

I attack a advanced powerplant and the AI sells it.

Apparently this is enough to buy a harvester... Ok, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

The harvester fills up maybe 25-40% makes it back into the base before I can get it.

Then the silos are full and the main base starts pumping out units. And I mean pumping them out. 4 light tanks, 4 buggies, 2 stealth tanks, 10 infantry or so.

I felt so damn cheated.

[DarkFenix]

The AI has always cheated for credits, because its ability to manage its economy is so bad.

So it's your job to play more efficiently than the AI. You need to not build units that will just lose you money easily. And you need to not build your base in such a way that a single nuke can wipe you out. And you need to have an army that consists of more than 2 Mammoths by the time the map is cleaned of tiberium.

[Reckless]

Originally posted by Venom Chris:

Originally posted by Rekkless:

TLDR: Did the AI always cheat with extra credits with such low amounts of Tib? Seems like a harvester 25-50% full can create enough credits to building an army and rebuild half a base.

This was always part of the original game. Hell, I even have the origian C&C Brady Games guide and the producer more or less admitted to the AI "cheating" because the AI has to have *some* advantage against a human opponent. Otherwise, it would just get curb-stomped. And that's boring as hell. The AI has to be able to be given enough resources to achieve it's base goals to some extent. It's not going to just sit there and wait for you. Granted in some scenarios, the AI will have much more resources than you. But generally, in the initial ones, you both start the same. But the AI will have a leg up credits-wise. Otherwise, you could simply rush it with your starting units and wreck them.

I'm talking about the campaign no Skirmish. In this mission the AI have 2 established bases, multiple turrets around the map and some SAM sites.

I start with 1 medium tank and a MCV. I'm not rushing anything.

[MeltingPotOfFriendship]

Originally posted by Rekkless:

Originally posted by Reanimator:

You are fighting multiple AI 'players' on that particular map. They each have their own Economy and behavior I believe.

But even so it doesn't make sense. Their silos were empty. They weren't building anything.

I attack a advanced powerplant and the AI sells it.

Apparently this is enough to buy a harvester... Ok, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

The harvester fills up maybe 25-40% makes it back into the base before I can get it.

Then the silos are full and the main base starts pumping out units. And I mean pumping them out. 4 light tanks, 4 buggies, 2 stealth tanks, 10 infantry or so.

I felt so damn cheated.

The AI has to have some advantages over a human player. Like I wrote otherwise, it would be over very quickly if everyone was on an even playing field. Back then, strategy games were meant to be much more long and drawn out. C&C was one of those games where you could spend hours working on playing through the campaign.

[Reckless]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

The AI has always cheated for credits, because its ability to manage its economy is so bad.

So it's your job to play more efficiently than the AI. You need to not build units that will just lose you money easily. And you need to not build your base in such a way that a single nuke can wipe you out. And you need to have an army that consists of more than 2 Mammoths by the time the map is cleaned of tiberium.

Again I'm talking about the last mission for GDI in the campaign, the Nuke is about 6 times larger than the nuke in multiplayer and significantly stronger.

[MeltingPotOfFriendship]

Originally posted by Rekkless:

Originally posted by Venom Chris:

This was always part of the original game. Hell, I even have the origian C&C Brady Games guide and the producer more or less admitted to the AI "cheating" because the AI has to have *some* advantage against a human opponent. Otherwise, it would just get curb-stomped. And that's boring as hell. The AI has to be able to be given enough resources to achieve it's base goals to some extent. It's not going to just sit there and wait for you. Granted in some scenarios, the AI will have much more resources than you. But generally, in the initial ones, you both start the same. But the AI will have a leg up credits-wise. Otherwise, you could simply rush it with your starting units and wreck them.

I'm talking about the campaign no Skirmish. In this mission the AI have 2 established bases, multiple turrets around the map and some SAM sites.

I start with 1 medium tank and a MCV. I'm not rushing anything.

Like I said, this was part of the base game. What I wrote applies to the campaign as well. Re-read what I wrote. It was hard-coded into the game.

[Reckless]

Originally posted by Venom Chris:

Originally posted by Rekkless:

I'm talking about the campaign no Skirmish. In this mission the AI have 2 established bases, multiple turrets around the map and some SAM sites.

I start with 1 medium tank and a MCV. I'm not rushing anything.

Like I said, this was part of the base game. What I wrote applies to the campaign as well. Re-read what I wrote. It was hard-coded into the game.

Fair enough. Still feels very cheap and gutting to be cheated like that after about 90 minutes on the final mission.

[MeltingPotOfFriendship]

Originally posted by Rekkless:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

The AI has always cheated for credits, because its ability to manage its economy is so bad.

So it's your job to play more efficiently than the AI. You need to not build units that will just lose you money easily. And you need to not build your base in such a way that a single nuke can wipe you out. And you need to have an army that consists of more than 2 Mammoths by the time the map is cleaned of tiberium.

Again I'm talking about the last mission for GDI in the campaign, the Nuke is about 6 times larger than the nuke in multiplayer and significantly stronger.

Umm because it's the campaign. What did you expect, the game to take it easy on you? The nuke in the campaign was nasty in the DOS version as well. I have the original games and yeah, its tile coverage is pretty gnarly.

[MeltingPotOfFriendship]

Originally posted by Rekkless:

Originally posted by Venom Chris:

Like I said, this was part of the base game. What I wrote applies to the campaign as well. Re-read what I wrote. It was hard-coded into the game.

Fair enough. Still feels very cheap and gutting to be cheated like that after about 90 minutes on the final mission.

The brady games original guide had a great startegy. But like another poster wrote, you have to more efficient than the AI. I'll give you a tip though. Build sandbags to extend your base. Then way outside of the base, build an AGT. DO NOT build any in your base itself otherwise you weill get nuked. For some reason,the AI really, really likes to attack them and it will nuke the AGT instead of your base!(im guessing based on threat assement because the AGT's are killer on anything), and so long as you only have that ONE, it will only attack it. You will just have to keep rebuilding it when it goes boom.

[Pawnstar]

Did the AI cheat? Yes they did and they can. They can even build a Construction Yard directly like a regular structure.

Have you tried the Sandbag cheese? Like literally building sandbags not just to extend your base but wall those poor folks in their base. Ion Cannon their structures and place sandbags to block any replacement rebuilds; they only build at the exact same location you first found them at.