The current "final" tier of armor has completely ridiculous crafting requirements.

[Hex: Maidenless]

So I'm nearing the end of what currently exists in the game. level 25 for several hours. Running out of quests. Just about have done everything.

One thing I want to do is craft the current highest set of armor I can craft. In my case, I'm playing a mage character, so I want the Archmage set.

Now, just playing as mage, pretty much anyone who has done the same will know the hell that is Flax. Flax is ridiculous. You start needing it once you enter the game's second biome. It is ONLY naturally found IN the game's second biome. It is also extraordinarily sparse and there is nowhere on the map you can farm it efficiently. There are a few fixed points in certain ruined towns, but only a couple of drops. Like, 4 to 6. Otherwise, you need to just roam the entire biome looking for the stuff.

The problem is, you need -hundreds- of Flax.

Flax is turned into Linen. Linen is used in EVERYTHING, and in no small volume. For most of the game, you get Linen in a ratio of 1 for 2 Flax.

To put this into perspective, you need 30 Linen for the T2 set of caster armor, the first one that isn't just string, torn cloth, metal scraps and the like. So for your FIRST noteworthy set after you leave the starting area basically, you immediately need to gather 60 Flax. The set after that requires 28 Linen, so you need another 56 Flax for that too.

Annoying, but not THAT bad given it's a OWSC. No, the problem is once you get to the last batch. To put it into perspective, I'm going to use the set I've worked towards. The Archmage Set require the following:

9 Padding
16 Yellow Fabric

Padding is a current-endgame material that requires several materials, most notably being Linen, and Fabric. It requires three of each

Fabric is a current-endgame material that requires three Linen to make. So basically, every single Padding requires 12 Linen. For Padding alone, this would mean you need 108 Linen, or 216 Flax.

But wait! You might have noticed the name of that second item. Yellow Fabric. These are indeed also made with Fabric, using 1 Fabric + 1 Saffron to make. So basically, add another 48 Linen that you need to the total, making it 156, or 312 Flax. Keep in mind, if you just run across the biome looking for it naturally, you could spend 20 minutes roaming and only end up with anywhere from 10 to 30 Flax.

But hold on! Mercifully, once you get to the endgame, you become able to craft a more efficient station at the carpenter which allows you to convert Flax into Linen at a ratio of 1 to 1 instead of 2 to 1. Much better, right? Now you -ONLY- 156 Flax. So, you know, instead of having to roam for something like a potential 7-10 hours, you ONLY need to roam for around 3-5!

Basically, this means that the only way to really reliably get Flax is to farm it. It forces you to engage with the farming system which is otherwise completely ignore-able for the entire game. And then you find out that the farming system is literally just agonizingly slow wait times.

It takes 5 minutes to craft 10 Flax Seeds. Each Flax Seed is 1 Flax once fully grown. So just to get the amount of seeds that you need, you're going to spend a combined 1h and 20m just waiting for the seeds to craft. This is the point when I tell you that the seeds themselves take over 20 minutes just to grow. Now, realistically speaking, 99% of people won't math all of this out before undertaking the effort to craft the armor. That means they're going to go through this step by step, growing a bit of Flax at a time, maybe doing so alongside trying to farm some naturally, without realizing just how much they need. Oh, did I mention that the game doesn't actually tell you about the new station that lets you increase the Flax-to-Linen efficiency in any notable way? It just shows up in the Carpenter's crafting menu with no fanfare other than the usual golden marker that unless you've been going over every single recipe that unlocks throughout the whole game so that they disappear, you wouldn't even realize anything had changed. I imagine the bulk and share of players won't even realize it's there. So a whole ton of people will likely undertake this whole affair taking literally twice as long as you need to.

Now, if you're wiling to game the system, there are SOME ways to mitigate this slightly. You can run through the Ancient Spire in the Kindlewastes and break all the pots, which have a small chance to drop Yellow Fabric. Then, once you've cleared it, restart the game so they all respawn and do it again.

But thats all up to the whims of RNG. I did 3 runs on it and ended up with 6 Yellow Fabric, not even half of what I would need to finish the set.

And keep in mind, this is just ONE armor set for ONE person. Nevermind if you're playing as a group. Nevermind if you have multiple magic users. Nevermind other things that take fabric or linen like bomb clusters, backpacks, glider upgrades, etc. And I can't imagine the other armor sets aren't going to need Padding, given its crafted at the Huntress.

The long and short of this post is to emphasize the fact that the amount of time you're expected to commit just to Flax is ridiculous. The only way to mitigate it is to be psychic and know it will become a crippling problem later on from the offset, and start farming it at your base the MOMENT you get access to it in the early-game. But realistically speaking, how many people are actually going to do that? Who is going to guess that this one material is going to become such a ball-ache?

The amount of Flax that you need to craft things needs to be notably reduced. That, or the amount of Flax you get from gathering it needs to be increased. The time commitment you need to put in to get this crap is insane. Especially when you consider, this armor set that I'm referring to, isn't even anywhere close to what will be the game's actual endgame. Do remember we only are on something like 1/3rd of the total map at the moment. This isn't even a real endgame grind, this is functionally a mid, if not late-early game grind.

Which just makes you think, what in the world are the grinds AFTER this going to be like?

[Lightning]

The final crafted armor set is even 2 lvls below the farmed ones from bosses or chests too, which is odd lol, IE: below pic found off a lvl 30 boss.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3152852376

[Hex: Maidenless]

Originally posted by Lightning:

The final crafted armor set is even 2 lvls below the farmed ones from bosses or chests too, which is odd lol, IE: below pic found off a lvl 30 boss.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3152852376

I imagine that's a symptom of my last point. The fact that this isn't technically the end of the game so a bit of content for stuff we aren't really meant to tackle just yet is already implemented.

But it still emphasizes how ridiculous the grind is. I think I spent like 4 hours tonight getting my armor set together in the background of watching YouTube, because I foolishly didn't math it out and check how much I would need all at once. A non-endgame armor set in a survival game should not require this level of time commitment.

[Kappanaama]

I got 1000-2000 flax in no time when I farm them. Dont collect them at the beginning. Put them back to farm more. For me flax aint problem as I started to farm it early in my game. I have more than enough for every item in the game. More annoying is I cant craft regular rake so I cant make make it any faster because that stupid bug. Wait when you make archer build and all items what you need for arrows. Flax is easy cake after that.

[Aethere]

Make more than one seedbed, use fertile farm soil to make a big planting area, and do something else while you wait for them to grow. The common solution to this sort of problem is simply "add more machines".

[Kryten]

When I first did the maths for what I need for the last armor, I got to >420 flax needed. Then I discovered that there is a bigger spinning wheel than the one you first get from the hunter. It does Flax to Linen in a 1:1 ratio, but takes 30 seconds each instead of 10. That makes things better and by now I have all pieces built...it wasn't that hard and I won't need to do that again.

[Hex: Maidenless]

Originally posted by Kappanaama:

I got 1000-2000 flax in no time when I farm them. Dont collect them at the beginning. Put them back to farm more. For me flax aint problem as I started to farm it early in my game. I have more than enough for every item in the game. More annoying is I cant craft regular rake so I cant make make it any faster because that stupid bug.

You did exactly what I cited was the thing you have to do to not have Flax become a problem.

The issue is that 99% of people WON'T do that because most people tackle grinds like this as they come up. They don't go out of their way to mass-collect things as they show up that they don't know how much of which they will end up needing.

And Flax, despite its lack of prominence in the open world, is one of the most needed materials in the ENTIRE GAME right now.

[Lightning]

Yeah having to refresh the garden bed every 5 minutes since flax is one of the fastest growing plant crazy clicking.

[Hex: Maidenless]

Originally posted by Aethere:

Make more than one seedbed, use fertile farm soil to make a big planting area, and do something else while you wait for them to grow. The common solution to this sort of problem is simply "add more machines".

That's exactly what I did. This is not a thread about asking for help. I already have the armor. I already went through the process. One of my favorite games is Satisfactory. This is far from my first rodeo with figuring out how to get what I need and maximize the efficiency.

The point is moreso that this is just bad design and is going to be a major point of frustration to the average player who reaches this point. And frankly, it just shouldn't be. If the game is going to demand as much flax as it does, it shouldn't make collecting it naturally such a damn slog.

[Hex: Maidenless]

Originally posted by Kryten:

When I first did the maths for what I need for the last armor, I got to >420 flax needed. Then I discovered that there is a bigger spinning wheel than the one you first get from the hunter. It does Flax to Linen in a 1:1 ratio, but takes 30 seconds each instead of 10. That makes things better and by now I have all pieces built...it wasn't that hard and I won't need to do that again.

Except, you will. Because you KNOW we're going to need Linen for future tiers beyond what is currently the max.

The ride never ends. That's half the problem. And again, its this bad JUST for one solo player, not to speak on friends playing as a group and the number of Flax needed just for one tier potentially going into the 1k+ range.

[Grumpy-Granddad]

I think you are just not into farming to plant enough Flax. If you get the hang of it its a breeze to get enough Flax. I for one have absolutly no problem in planting and farming Flax at my base.

[Hex: Maidenless]

Originally posted by Grumpy-Granddad:

I think you are just not into farming to plant enough Flax. If you get the hang of it its a breeze to get enough Flax. I for one have absolutly no problem in planting and farming Flax at my base.

I have literally planted hundreds of Flax. Again, I have the armor. I went through the process.

You or my ability to do it does not change the fact it is an arduously long effort for an armor that isn't actually anywhere near endgame in the final product.

[WallaceTheSane]

I honestly don't think any of the grind for any armor set is that bad at all. I have 1 of every single armor set that is craftable, and I didn't find it anywhere near as sluggish and annoying as you find it to be. I also have less than 70 hours played total.

[Hex: Maidenless]

Originally posted by WallaceTheSane:

I honestly don't think any of the grind for any armor set is that bad at all. I have 1 of every single armor set that is craftable, and I didn't find it anywhere near as sluggish and annoying as you find it to be. I also have less than 70 hours played total.

The final tier that currently exists is the only ones that are really problematic. Merely because of the raw amount of a single material that you need to get. But again, the problem is the fact this isn't an endgame material. Not even close. We're only playing on something like 1/3rd of the full map.

As it currently stands if the material requirements for this tier are not properly reduced, once more content for the game comes out, I imagine the majority of players won't even bother crafting this tier because by the time they do they'll likely be in the range of level 30 already. I was already level 25 for several hours before I even started trying to get the materials to craft the Archmage set, pretty sure if I were capable of leveling up I would have been 27-28 by that point. And that's not even to speak of how much Linen/Fabric we'll need for tiers beyond it, because thus far the game has been fairly consistent with the "core" materials either never fully falling out of relevancy, or taking several tiers to do so, and Flax has been a consistent need in some amount ever since a few hours in so I find it hard to imagine that's going to stop.

I'm at 58 hours atm and as I said, I'm just about done with all the available objectives.

[WallaceTheSane]

Originally posted by Hex: Maidenless:

Originally posted by WallaceTheSane:

I honestly don't think any of the grind for any armor set is that bad at all. I have 1 of every single armor set that is craftable, and I didn't find it anywhere near as sluggish and annoying as you find it to be. I also have less than 70 hours played total.

The final tier that currently exists is the only ones that are really problematic. Merely because of the raw amount of a single material that you need to get. But again, the problem is the fact this isn't an endgame material. Not even close. We're only playing on something like 1/3rd of the full map.

As it currently stands if the material requirements for this tier are not properly reduced, once more content for the game comes out, I imagine the majority of players won't even bother crafting this tier because by the time they do they'll likely be in the range of level 30 already. I was already level 25 for several hours before I even started trying to get the materials to craft the Archmage set.

I'm at 58 hours atm and as I said, I'm just about done with all the available objectives.

Ok, I see your point. I can understand that it might need a little adjusting at some point. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they did adjust it a little bit once the game comes out as a full release game. As it stands currently, I'd imagine we'll probably have at least 5 more tiers of craftable armor sets if we see how many sets we currently have, and the amount of map we still have to discover.

[[FoG] Archia]

The sudden need for Fabric was a bit of a bottleneck for me but once i had two seedbeds going with two large plots of land for farming it became a bit of a joke. but it is weird that it's set up the way it is. it was like getting hit with a bat named Farming out of nowhere.