Artifacts Need A Revamp...

[Caim]

Most of them are just WAY too weak, either a one time use, so specific they're never used, or borderline useless.

Others will actually either kill you or outright ruin your run.

This was never an issue in any other sort of card game that had this system, just specifically this one, in fact in the other games I always chose an artifact over everything because they typically were game changers.

Here's some examples of artifacts that just ruin the game.

Flawed Gem - Early game you're going eat around 10 damage every single time, unless you got some way to recover mana at the start, then on top of that have enough to CC / kill mobs to help mitigate the damage, this will outright kill you either right away on next game when obtaining this, or over the course of a few matches because of all the unpreventable damage you're about to eat.

Wooden Bowl - The absolute worst item in the game, literally just use a campsite, I lost a game souly because of this item, I had 7 gems when I obtained this from rng, I was down about maybe 25/30 hp, so when the round started I just consumed all 7 gems to heal... FIVE HP. Seriously?

Bottle of Miasma / Tsantsa / Glass Caltrop - Literally suicide artifacts, just eat all that UNCONTROLLABLE reflect damage from enemies that have a thorns element to them, on top of that it can be wasted of shielded enemies, instead of unshielded.

There's no "play" around these, it's literally just game-ruining rage fuel artifacts.

Inb4 some super specific heal builds, or "Save" builds, with rng involved with everything, it's just a non-argument, these artifacts and many others are just outright dumpster fire.

[TheStrategicRabbit]

Too many people use the argument of "Just use this build bro" despite RNG almost guaranteeing you can't get that build going. This game is so crazy RNG dependent compared to most other Rougelike deckbuilders it's kind of insane. In every other RL:DB I've played, I never felt like the run was unwinnable from the first few battles like this game makes me feel. It's not just an artifact issue either, I've lost more than a few runs because I got surrounded by 5+ enemies round 1 using that "powerful attack" BS and no CC or any way to stop it in my initial draw. This game is fun when it's not total BS, there's a TON of potential here, it just needs a lot of work.

[Caim]

I feel like artifacts are part of then blame, but not the majority, first turns should always be some prep imop. I've won about 5 games so far, I have had some godly runs, but overall artifacts really do like to throw wrenches into stuff, so I ALWAYS avoid them, I hate that I do because it goes against how I would normally play.

[TheStrategicRabbit]

Originally posted by Caim:

I feel like artifacts are part of then blame, but not the majority, first turns should always be some prep imop. I've won about 5 games so far, I have had some godly runs, but overall artifacts really do like to throw wrenches into stuff, so I ALWAYS avoid them, I hate that I do because it goes against how I would normally play.

I very rarely take an artifact unless it's something like Rage Cage. I haven't won a run yet because I can seem to get more than 1-2 smithy's but instead get like 20+ vaults, ruins, and libraries. Which all ties back into my main complaints of everything is kind of broken unless you get crazy RNG luck

[Foomy44]

Have you considered not taking the artifact when your build can't handle the downside? Why on earth would you take wooden bowl when you have 7 gems?

[Caim]

Originally posted by Voodoo Pygmy:

Have you considered not taking the artifact when your build can't handle the downside? Why on earth would you take wooden bowl when you have 7 gems?

Random artifact for 1 gem? you play ?

Also this addressed literally 1 artifact out of all of them, still a overall problem.

[Foomy44]

Yes, I do play. I also choose to not take the random artifact I am offered if it's going to literally end my run. Dying seems worse than losing the 1 gold. You play?

It actually addressed all the artifacts since, guess what, you can choose to not take all of them when offered which will be the right call if your build/group/circumstances can't make up for the downside. Out of gems and near dead? Wooden bowl not so bad now. Have a teammate that's spamming group block or mana? Flawed gem might be worth it.

Caltrops+rotten interaction sucks, hope it gets changed.

[Konstanty]

Just wanted to let you know that we are looking at the balance and usefulness of artifacts. One community member prepared a document that you could use to rate artifacts.

Just copy the document from the post, fill it out, and post in the same thread:
https://discord.com/channels/320111824190308382/1077252381890322593
We will use them to gauge how players feel about each artifact.

[Satori]

Artifacts feel a little weak for their cost

Topic. Some of them even end up being straight up liabilities. Given how difficult it is to get gemstones I feel like artifacts should always be a decided upgrade.

Example: The goldfish upgrade that mandatorily transfers your main hero's hp to a companion. It should at the very least be optional.

My favorite strategy in cardbuilding roguelites like this is to rush and build up a ton of artifacts to end up getting some crazy and fun random build.

That sadly doesn't seem to be super viable here due to the large amount of mediocre artifacts.

At least in my admittedly limited experience rolling a bunch of artifacts that's been the case.

It seems like the go to strategy is to focus on building a few legendary cards in a thin deck. This is a shame because multiple playstyles should be supported.

[PSULucky]

Agreed. Artifacts seem to be either janky or weak, or sometimes both. A lot of them are double-edged swords where the payoff isn't nearly good enough, or they're strictly beneficial but just not very impactful. At this point, I never waste gems on artifacts unless I have some to spare. My go-to upgrades are card removal and card upgrading, with +1 mana or +1 card draw right before the final boss. The average legendary card puts in a lot more work than like 95% of the artifacts I think. Unlike most deckbuilders, it's pretty rare that I cater my build to which artifacts I have, except maybe the starters.

[Konstanty]

There is a thread on artifacts, where I linked a Discord thread where you can fill our a google doc with your artifact scoring (because we will be doing a lot of balancing over the next couple of months and we need data to do so!). I will merge this thread with the other one.

[Alsharys]

Originally posted by Konstanty:

There is a thread on artifacts, where I linked a Discord thread where you can fill our a google doc with your artifact scoring (because we will be doing a lot of balancing over the next couple of months and we need data to do so!). I will merge this thread with the other one.

=> maybe I am doing something wrong but I can't access this. It opens a Discord page but it looks like the data isn't loading

[Konstanty]

Originally posted by Alsharys:

Originally posted by Konstanty:

There is a thread on artifacts, where I linked a Discord thread where you can fill our a google doc with your artifact scoring (because we will be doing a lot of balancing over the next couple of months and we need data to do so!). I will merge this thread with the other one.

=> maybe I am doing something wrong but I can't access this. It opens a Discord page but it looks like the data isn't loading

Hm... weird. Here is the doc, just copy it, fill with your data and post a link to it here so we can take a peek:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CScgz1OFe214TN0uyUgWv77ymOh2qSaawsGSluWxun8/edit?usp=sharing

Cheers!

[skeletalhammer]

Interesting document! I haven't played the game enough to fully rank relics, but I have won every match that I have actually played (beat corruption 3, not counting ones that I popped in, looked at some stuff, then retired). I have not used all relics, so forgive me if I have missed some great or terrible ones.

Top tier: early in run relics that give you gems.
Can of Beans
Golden Ticket
Whale Figurine
Golden Onion
Synergy: Moka Pot

Situational Top tier: Thumb Lancet and any of the following.
Bolt Hell / other healing cards. None are as good as bolt hell. Card is busted.
Goldfish
First Blood
Evergreen Leaf
Bloody Grail
Bandage
Torn Button
Red Cap
Synergy: Burrito, you can spend life to gain more life to gain more gems!

Really Good: Relics that provide damage
Rage Cage
Best Pal
Homicidal Organ

Also good: Relics that provide mana / card draw. Not quite as good as damage because of all the cards that draw for allies / give them mana.
Memento
Loot Crate
Kielbasa
Miniature Chair

Ramp thats nice early in a run:
Lump of Coal
Tiny Bamboo

Most of remaining artifacts are meh and I would prefer a card upgrade, removal, or sometimes even just burning a gem for the possibility of something better.

Situationally good/bad:
Pawn - would reject this in a rune deck or one that adds negative statuses.
Glass Caultrop - on uber block builds this is decent. Chainmail + Mage double armor card. However, rotten enemies will mess you up.
Friendly Toad - 33% less likely to get a good card. +7 hp for blood lancet gems... hmm.

Thats okay. However the following are almost always rejected because they make you worse:
Flawed Ruby - waste your first turn. Take 10+ damage. Takes 3 turns to pay off. Enemies never live 3 turns. Worse than the Meditation Card because at least thats an optional play and gets cheaper every time you draw it.
Wooden Bowl - lose all gems. Get rekt.
Dice - 33% chance to be unable to do anything on your turn for little payout, extra mana is cheap, but no mana is death.
Vicious Hatchet - add junk to your deck. If you could reject the cards it would be upgraded to "meh".
Bottled Miasma - take up to 5 damage at the start of the fight because of rotten enemies. Its not rotten thats the problem, its that relics trigger rotten.
Clam - bloat your deck with crap that you would have spent that gem removing.

Most of the starter relics do not feel like they are worth a gem. I would rather be able to remove garbage from deck or gamble for the truly powerful relics for the price they provide. In comparison, if I get a random relic yes I may not get something useful, but I may get something extremely good, build defining, win the game.