seelah shouldn't be a paladin

[suprpiwi]

why the ♥♥♥♥ is she a paladin, she drinks, never answers in a lawful manner, rather chaotic good. what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a paladin which means her powers would fall off

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Razer:

Where's the lore for that? That sounds really weird. A self proclaimed Paladin is not a Paladin.

Irabeth personally reveals it, if you ask her about herself. She might not divulge such information after Act 1, but I know for a fact she'll explain it while she's still in the tavern.

Basically, Irabeth decided it was a bright idea to move to a region that had a long history of warfare against the Orc population, and then got frustrated when none of the knightly orders were willing to accept a Half Orc into their ranks.

So she decided to just declare herself a knight on the spot, without officially gaining membership.

--------------------

Also, I might have misremembered a small detail. I think Irabeth was stated to have undergone the proper ceremonies for Paladinhood before she relocated? Somebody will have to double check that for me, since I'm currently doing a Lord of Nothing playthrough and can't do it myself.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

I miss the days where people didn't try to find the "W" word in everything. I would hate for them to learn who voiced Darth Vader, Kratos, Shredder, and some of the other iconic characters some grew up with.

The 'W' word isn't about what's presented in the setting, but HOW it's presented.

If anyone tells you that having ethnic diversity in the story is what people are agitated about, those people are lying. Or they are so hopelessly out of touch with reality, that they live inside their own delusional fantasy land.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The 'W' word isn't about what's presented in the setting, but HOW it's presented.

If anyone tells you that having ethnic diversity in the story is what people are agitated about, those people are lying. Or they are so hopelessly out of touch with reality, that they live inside their own delusional fantasy land.

Well, there were some knuckleheads that were trying to bring attention to a mod that turned Seelah white and removed anyone of a certain skin tone from the game (along with making Anevia a man), so there are small groups of these degenerates out there. Sadly they show up on here from time to time.

The funny thing is I definitely feel that there are games that are trying to force an agenda down people's throats, but WotR has done a good job at not being one of them.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Irabeth wasn't even hired. She just proclaimed herself to be a Paladin, after all the knightly orders refused to accept her into their ranks.

Then she gets cold feet and loses her nerve the first time she encounters a high stress situation. So much for Paladins being immune to the Fear effects!

Where's the lore for that? That sounds really weird. A self proclaimed Paladin is not a Paladin.

Actually they are. A paladin doesn't have to be ordained. A paladin is born when they create their oath and begin following it. Cause again a paladin doesn't need a deity let alone an Order backing them.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Originally posted by Razer:

Where's the lore for that? That sounds really weird. A self proclaimed Paladin is not a Paladin.

Actually they are. A paladin doesn't have to be ordained. A paladin is born when they create their oath and begin following it. Cause again a paladin doesn't need a deity let alone an Order backing them.

Pathfinder is like DnD, but eating mushrooms and smoking pot and doing crack all at once. I guess in a delusion all of this makes sense XD.

[Metrod125]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Actually they are. A paladin doesn't have to be ordained. A paladin is born when they create their oath and begin following it. Cause again a paladin doesn't need a deity let alone an Order backing them.

Pathfinder is like DnD, but eating mushrooms and smoking pot and doing crack all at once. I guess in a delusion all of this makes sense XD.

Mushrooms, pot, and crack sound all well and good. but DnD 3.5? Pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ heroin

[Aeon]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Actually they are. A paladin doesn't have to be ordained. A paladin is born when they create their oath and begin following it. Cause again a paladin doesn't need a deity let alone an Order backing them.

PF1e doesn't work with D&D 5e Paladin rules. In PF1e Paladins are Lawful Good knightly order of a deity. Their power derives from their deity.

"Through a select, worthy few shines the power of the divine. Called paladins, these noble souls dedicate their swords and lives to the battle against evil. Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve. In pursuit of their lofty goals, they adhere to ironclad laws of morality and discipline." - Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook pg. 60

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Actually they are. A paladin doesn't have to be ordained. A paladin is born when they create their oath and begin following it. Cause again a paladin doesn't need a deity let alone an Order backing them.

They do in the second edition remaster. Champions must be sanctified towards either Holy or Unholy, and that means they must be the follower of a deity who allows for the participation of sanctification rites.

This also means that deities who don't have sanctification rituals (such as Pharasma) can not have Champions.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Aeon:

"Through a select, worthy few shines the power of the divine. Called paladins, these noble souls dedicate their swords and lives to the battle against evil. Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve. In pursuit of their lofty goals, they adhere to ironclad laws of morality and discipline." - Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook pg. 60

Still holds true in 2nd edition as well.

"You are an emissary of a deity, a devoted servant who has taken up a weighty mantle, and you devoutly pursue a cause that holds you apart from those around you. You have powerful defenses that you share freely with your allies and innocent bystanders, as well as divine power you use to end the threats your deity opposes."

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Aeon:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Actually they are. A paladin doesn't have to be ordained. A paladin is born when they create their oath and begin following it. Cause again a paladin doesn't need a deity let alone an Order backing them.

PF1e doesn't work with D&D 5e Paladin rules. In PF1e Paladins are Lawful Good knightly order of a deity. Their power derives from their deity.

"Through a select, worthy few shines the power of the divine. Called paladins, these noble souls dedicate their swords and lives to the battle against evil. Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve. In pursuit of their lofty goals, they adhere to ironclad laws of morality and discipline." - Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook pg. 60

Again wrong. That is just the class description and has no bearing on playing the class or its place in the world of Golarion in 1e.

Page 220 states where paladins get their powers from.(Which also makes a distinction on whether or not it requires a deity as well since cleric is mentioned as requiring a deity here)

James Jacobs has stated that paladins do not get their powers from a deity.

The class itself makes no mention of requiring a deity to worship(unlike cleric).

The class losing its powers does not state a deity takes them, gives them or decides what to do with them(Again unlike cleric).

Even several of the other rulebooks such as Faiths of the Sea Gods makes careful wording to avoid mentioning Paladins require a deity.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Again wrong. That is just the class description and has no bearing on playing the class or its place in the world of Golarion in 1e.

What kind of mental gymnastics are you pulling off to come to this conclusion? Just because it does not explicitly state it out loud, does not mean it's invalidated. If the description for the class outwardly states they are servants of a deity, then that is how the class works.

As they pointed out previously, Pathfinder does not operate under D&D's rulesets, which were written in such a way as to be Setting Agnostic.

Pathfinder is a completely separate game, with its own separate rules and setting. It doesn't have a bunch of different sub-settings, unlike D&D which has Forgotten Realms / Greyhawk / Eberron / Dark Sun / est.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Again wrong. That is just the class description and has no bearing on playing the class or its place in the world of Golarion in 1e.

What kind of mental gymnastics are you pulling off to come to this conclusion? Just because it does not explicitly state it out loud, does not mean it's invalidated. If the description for the class outwardly states they are servants of a deity, then that is how the class works.

As they pointed out previously, Pathfinder does not operate under D&D's rulesets, which were written in such a way as to be Setting Agnostic.

Pathfinder is a completely separate game, with its own separate rules and setting. It doesn't have a bunch of different sub-settings, unlike D&D which has Forgotten Realms / Greyhawk / Eberron / Dark Sun / est.

Less gymnastics than you are to ignore multiple sources of it being invalidated. Including the head writer stating it.

Headcanon =/= rules or setting

[Aeon]

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Again wrong. That is just the class description and has no bearing on playing the class or its place in the world of Golarion in 1e.

Page 220 states where paladins get their powers from.(Which also makes a distinction on whether or not it requires a deity as well since cleric is mentioned as requiring a deity here)

James Jacobs has stated that paladins do not get their powers from a deity.

The class itself makes no mention of requiring a deity to worship(unlike cleric).

The class losing its powers does not state a deity takes them, gives them or decides what to do with them(Again unlike cleric).

Even several of the other rulebooks such as Faiths of the Sea Gods makes careful wording to avoid mentioning Paladins require a deity.

"Paladins devote themselves to three ideals: purity, honor, and strength. A paladin’s primary duty is to her deity, and she seeks to bring others to her way of thinking by example—through strength of faith, strength of mind, or, if all else fails, strength of arms. Not that paladins believe in a “convert or die” philosophy—only that those who seek to do evil must be taught the error of their ways." - Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting pg. 47

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Aeon:

Originally posted by Frozen Dervish:

Again wrong. That is just the class description and has no bearing on playing the class or its place in the world of Golarion in 1e.

Page 220 states where paladins get their powers from.(Which also makes a distinction on whether or not it requires a deity as well since cleric is mentioned as requiring a deity here)

James Jacobs has stated that paladins do not get their powers from a deity.

The class itself makes no mention of requiring a deity to worship(unlike cleric).

The class losing its powers does not state a deity takes them, gives them or decides what to do with them(Again unlike cleric).

Even several of the other rulebooks such as Faiths of the Sea Gods makes careful wording to avoid mentioning Paladins require a deity.

"Paladins devote themselves to three ideals: purity, honor, and strength. A paladin’s primary duty is to her deity, and she seeks to bring others to her way of thinking by example—through strength of faith, strength of mind, or, if all else fails, strength of arms. Not that paladins believe in a “convert or die” philosophy—only that those who seek to do evil must be taught the error of their ways." - Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting pg. 47

yup and in that same page which you conveniently did not post is:

", but paladins who serve no specific god are actually more common."

A Paladin worshipping a god of their own free will is not the same as being required to worship one to be a paladin.

[Drake]

Paladins are not directly bound by deity. For the simple reason that they do not have the domain mechanic (or equivalent, like warpriest blessing). This is the main difference between a paladin and a warpriest.

Paladin only have one requirement and it's to have a code of conduct to be a champion of good (which is why they are required to be lawful good). That code can comes from 2 ways.

- The paladin is from a paladin order and therefor is an oathbound paladin (so they take an oath, that mechanic is not present in game, even if some paladins are lore wise oathbound).

- They have a personal code of conduct (which is like a contract with cosmic forces, like the purity of their own soul or a lawful good deity or something equivalent) and must abide by it for it becomes their source of power.