kitsune experience vs tiefling experience... in the story...

[Soul]

I havent gotten that far yet... made it to lost chapel on first playthrough as a tiefling before restarting after a patch..... decided to run as a kitsune race and see how story changes.... and so far... im not feeling like its impacting anything like tiefling...

for example as a tiefling in the prologue its referenced early on about your "heritage" compared to mongrels being looked down upon.... in the tavern irabeth mentions your heritage as being outcasts in the city and how she can relate as a half orc who lived in another town.... the stolen moon quest even offers you perks with a ring for thievery and stealth if you ask to join the gang (but only if you are tiefling.... )

meanwhile my kitsune run so far..... all I got up to that point was a comment from Irabeth about how it must be like to be able to change forms (which I never did lol... )... so far its like my character race is just ignored entirely.... compared to my experience with a tiefling.... does it get any more "substance" deeper in the story?...

[Player#2201]

As far as racial choices go, one I have noticed is in Act 3. A crusade unit will offer to join (or you can accept finance points) which seems to be based off MC race; (human) barbarians, (tiefling) bandits, (gnome) alchemists, etc. I'm curious if anyone noted the kitsune option.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Player#2201:

As far as racial choices go, one I have noticed is in Act 3. A crusade unit will offer to join (or you can accept finance points) which seems to be based off MC race; (human) barbarians, (tiefling) bandits, (gnome) alchemists, etc. I'm curious if anyone noted the kitsune option.

Yeah, you seem to get an exclusive army unit based on your character's race. I don't remember what the Kitsune get, even though they were my first play through option. I'd have to try a new one and see what happens.

[Enola Gay]

On the subject of character races, What's the reason for not being able to go full orc. Instead of only half orc?

I would assume its similar to standard D&D where full orcs are violent, savage and generally too unintelligent to be a playable race. But I would rather be certain that's the case rather than just assume it is.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Enola Gay:

On the subject of character races, What's the reason for not being able to go full orc. Instead of only half orc?

I would assume its similar to standard D&D where full orcs are violent, savage and generally too unintelligent to be a playable race. But I would rather be certain that's the case rather than just assume it is.

That would be my guess. Talking to Irabeth about her history makes it clear that the general public does not have a very good relationship with Orcs.

As for why pure blooded Orcs aren't playable, while Tieflings and Dhampir are able to walk around in the streets, I'm not really sure.

[Player#2201]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Enola Gay:

On the subject of character races, What's the reason for not being able to go full orc. Instead of only half orc?

I would assume its similar to standard D&D where full orcs are violent, savage and generally too unintelligent to be a playable race. But I would rather be certain that's the case rather than just assume it is.

That would be my guess. Talking to Irabeth about her history makes it clear that the general public does not have a very good relationship with Orcs.

As for why pure blooded Orcs aren't playable, while Tieflings and Dhampir are able to walk around in the streets, I'm not really sure.

Same reason full vampires and demons aren't. Orcs basically invaded from the Darklands, unified under the Whispering Tyrant, and still raid anybody/everybody in the Hold of Belkzen. The one guy that did try to open up their civilization for trade was assassinated. They're pariahs (willing) for good reason.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Player#2201:

Same reason full vampires and demons aren't. Orcs basically invaded from the Darklands, unified under the Whispering Tyrant, and still raid anybody/everybody in the Hold of Belkzen. The one guy that did try to open up their civilization for trade was assassinated. They're pariahs (willing) for good reason.

Demons are different from Tieflings, as they are the literal, physical embodiment of Chaotic Evil. They can not be anything other than CE, or else they stop existing as Demons.

As for full vampires, the existence of the Dead Laws of Geb states that both Undead and living citizens are to be treated as equals and granted full rights and citizenship. They don't have any problems with vampires walking around in society.

I'd say the real reason why full vampires aren't playable, is due to the whole sunlight issue. Baldur's Gate 2 Enhanced had a vampire companion, but they gave her a cloak that allowed her to walk in the sunlight. Without the cloak, she would rapidly burn to death outside.

[seeker1]

It kinda reminds me of that scene in the first Blade movie where the vampire met with Blade in a park at daytime, covered head to toe with SPF 185 sunscreen.

[Player#2201]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Player#2201:

Same reason full vampires and demons aren't. Orcs basically invaded from the Darklands, unified under the Whispering Tyrant, and still raid anybody/everybody in the Hold of Belkzen. The one guy that did try to open up their civilization for trade was assassinated. They're pariahs (willing) for good reason.

Demons are different from Tieflings, as they are the literal, physical embodiment of Chaotic Evil. They can not be anything other than CE, or else they stop existing as Demons.

As for full vampires, the existence of the Dead Laws of Geb states that both Undead and living citizens are to be treated as equals and granted full rights and citizenship. They don't have any problems with vampires walking around in society.

I'd say the real reason why full vampires aren't playable, is due to the whole sunlight issue. Baldur's Gate 2 Enhanced had a vampire companion, but they gave her a cloak that allowed her to walk in the sunlight. Without the cloak, she would rapidly burn to death outside.

Okay... one at a time.

There are several examples in Pathfinder of outsiders having shifted their alignment but remained the creature type. One is, in fact, IN YOUR PARTY. That doesn't mean they aren't ostricized in some manner, but their type remains barring some other external force to change them (divine intervention).

Two, the game does not take place in Geb or anywhere near their cultural standards. These are largely Mendevans (Lawful Good kingdom, Iomedian worship). The only way people in the crusade become accustomed to the pressence of undead is if you take the lich path. People are uneasy at questioning an angel's decisions as commander, let alone a demigod of the undead.

Three, nothing stops daytime attacks in crusade mode with armies of vampires. While light weakness is part of pathfinder lore, there is low level magic (at least in TT) that makes it moot. Dhampires are easier to manage for balance because regular vampires are a very powerful template. Flavor without the balance issues.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Player#2201:

Okay... one at a time.

There are several examples in Pathfinder of outsiders having shifted their alignment but remained the creature type. One is, in fact, IN YOUR PARTY. That doesn't mean they aren't ostricized in some manner, but their type remains barring some other external force to change them (divine intervention).

Two, the game does not take place in Geb or anywhere near their cultural standards. These are largely Mendevans (Lawful Good kingdom, Iomedian worship). The only way people in the crusade become accustomed to the pressence of undead is if you take the lich path. People are uneasy at questioning an angel's decisions as commander, let alone a demigod of the undead.

Three, nothing stops daytime attacks in crusade mode with armies of vampires. While light weakness is part of pathfinder lore, there is low level magic (at least in TT) that makes it moot. Dhampires are easier to manage for balance because regular vampires are a very powerful template. Flavor without the balance issues.

1 - Yes, and that directly contradicts the lore. As I said, demons are the literal physical embodiment of chaotic evil. Furthermore, Arushalae has not truly changed her alignment, her mind is being manipulated by Desna. If you travel around with her in Act 4, there are several instances where her demonic nature rises to the surface as she just seems to snap without warning, before managing to regain her composure.

If you help her destroy the table in her dream, she immediately goes straight back to her demonic ways, in all their horrific glory. She rebukes Desna's for toying with her mind, and says she will never fall for her trickery again. She loves being a demon, and it was only due to Desna placing her in a brainwashing illusion that even started her "road to redemption" in the first place.


2 - I was more trying to point out the fact there is an entire country which openly welcomes the presence of vampires and other sentient undead within its society. Also an entire religion, if we include Urgathoa. If you're following the Lich path, you even have the option to institute your own Dead Laws during one of the crusade management events, so that the undead are acknowledged as legal citizens in Drezen.


3 - I was personally hoping the world map spells would have been more involved than they ended up being. Like a spell that blots out the sun, allowing vampires to travel freely throughout the map without fear of burning to death.

The Heroes of Might and Magic series also allowed vampires to engage in battle in broad daylight, even though the very lore within the game itself says they should have been incinerated by exposure to the sun. I just waved it off as the devs not wanting to retool the day / night cycle for combat maps.

[amills1]

Ursprungligen skrivet av GrandMajora:

Ursprungligen skrivet av seeker1:

... the kitsune get their magical tail ability, it's interesting, but if you want all 8 of their magical tail abilities, you have to blow 8 feat choices on it. Seems a bit inefficient.

The Nine Tailed Heir archetype of Sorcerer gets the Magical Tail feats for free as it levels up.

That's about the only way I'd ever consider getting those feats. None of those are so awesome that I'd blow a feat on them. It is odd though that Nenio is a wizard and not a sorcerer given that Kitsune are implied to be more inclined to be sorcerers.

On another note, I do recall some elf specific dialog when meeting the storyteller as you express surprise that an elf could have a beard.

[Sotanaht]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Soul:

I havent gotten that far yet... made it to lost chapel on first playthrough as a tiefling before restarting after a patch..... decided to run as a kitsune race and see how story changes.... and so far... im not feeling like its impacting anything like tiefling...

for example as a tiefling in the prologue its referenced early on about your "heritage" compared to mongrels being looked down upon.... in the tavern irabeth mentions your heritage as being outcasts in the city and how she can relate as a half orc who lived in another town.... the stolen moon quest even offers you perks with a ring for thievery and stealth if you ask to join the gang (but only if you are tiefling.... )

meanwhile my kitsune run so far..... all I got up to that point was a comment from Irabeth about how it must be like to be able to change forms (which I never did lol... )... so far its like my character race is just ignored entirely.... compared to my experience with a tiefling.... does it get any more "substance" deeper in the story?...

There are a few comments for Kitsune (especially talking to Nenio), but there are a few for every race (probably, I haven't been through them all(. There's even some dialog if you choose to be an ordinary human. Tiefling is just the exception with how much it gets.

[GrandMajora]

Ursprungligen skrivet av amills1:

That's about the only way I'd ever consider getting those feats. None of those are so awesome that I'd blow a feat on them. It is odd though that Nenio is a wizard and not a sorcerer given that Kitsune are implied to be more inclined to be sorcerers.

On another note, I do recall some elf specific dialog when meeting the storyteller as you express surprise that an elf could have a beard.

Well, she seems to be heavily vested in research, experimentation and book smarts. Where as Sorcerers are more about raw talent and intuition.