Does Ascendant Element Even Work?

[GrandMajora]

Okay, so this is a problem that has been bugging me since day one, but only now have I decided to actually look into it. The mythic ability, Ascendant Element, claims that it allows the designated energy type to bypass all damage resistance and immunities towards it.

However, every time I've taken it, it seems to have absolutely no effect. I usually give this feat to Ember and Woljiff, with Ember taking Ascended Fire, and Woljiff taking Ascended Lightning.

And yet, when I cast their appropriate spells against demons and similar enemies, I've noticed that the targets just completely shrug off their attacks without even flinching. Just earlier today, I had Woljiff cast Chain Lightning while assaulting Threshold, and the spell did literally no damage at all. Seriously, I had investigation mode turned on so I could keep track of the enemy's HP, and it remained at full, even after taking a direct blast!

[Immortal Reaver]

See combat log for exact info about why.

Give you rundown for Chain Lighting.
There are 3 types of defence againts spells demons have againts Chain Lighting.

Resistance and Immunities againts elemental damage. - Negated by Ascendant Element

Spell Resistance - nulifies most types of spell (Mythic Spells and a lot of Conjuration Spells do not target SR). You roll d20+Caster Level+ other bonuses (feats, items), if that is higher than enemy SR spell works. If it is lower then has no effect.

Saves - Chain Lighting targets Reflex save. If enemy saves it deals half damage.
But if enemy has Evasion (like Rogue and Ranger classes have) ability, then if they make a save enemy avoids all damage of Chain Lighting completely.

How saves work.
To do full damage, Difficulty Class (DC) of Chain Lighting needs to be higher than Reflex + d20.
DC = Spell Level + Casting Stat Modifier (For Eldritch Scroundel it is INT, for Stigmatized Witch it is CHA) + other bonuses (feats (Spell focus / Greater / Mythic), items bonuses)

[Kriminaal]

Maybe they saved vs reflex and took no damage ?

[Azure-Ghost]

Was the Damage absorbed or did you just not manage to beat the enemies spell penetration check?
Also some feats allow to take no damage instead of half damage on a succeded savethrow
+ as far as i remember, certain beings immunity can't be overcome even with the feat (fire elementals fire immunity for example)

[Immortal Reaver]

Also what inspect does not show is if enemy has Temporary HP. Like from False Life spell, Bloodrage or Barbarian Rage, then even if it shows you dealt damage, HP bar will not move until you have taken down temporary HP.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Azure-Ghost:

Was the Damage absorbed or did you just not manage to beat the enemies spell penetration check?
Also some feats allow to take no damage instead of half damage on a succeded savethrow (though not with chainlightning)
+ as far as i remember, certain beings immunity can't be overcome even with the feat (fire elementals fire immunity for example)

Spell Resistance almost always slips my mind, as I keep forgetting it's a thing.

However, as I said before, this problem has remained consistent ever since the game released. I find it difficult to believe I'd simply fail that many attempts to penetrate SR that many consecutive times in a row, so I had my suspicions the effect wasn't working properly.

[Tyrendian89]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Spell Resistance almost always slips my mind, as I keep forgetting it's a thing.

However, as I said before, this problem has remained consistent ever since the game released. I find it difficult to believe I'd simply fail that many attempts to penetrate SR that many consecutive times in a row, so I had my suspicions the effect wasn't working properly.

depending on the difficulty you're on, if you completely ignore Spell Pen in your builds (which you probably did, seeing as you forgot it existed in the first place...^^), that is quite possible, actually. And that's why you look at the combat log to figure out what happens (including Spell Pen calculations so you know your odds) :)

[Wächter]

Hey, I know I am a bit late to the party, but I was interested as well and did some testing using cheats and looking at the combat logs before and after taking Ascendant Element. From what I found out it does not help with spell pen or spell resistance, but with energy damage resistance and immunity, meaning that you still have to overcome SR like usual but the damage after is not reduced (marked with "(reduced)" in the combat log plus a "-xyz" to your damage in the calculations), but your spell still simply has no effect if it fails to overcome SR in the first place. I think, my testing was not all that extensive.

[Duder]

Originally posted by Wächter:

Hey, I know I am a bit late to the party, but I was interested as well and did some testing using cheats and looking at the combat logs before and after taking Ascendant Element. From what I found out it does not help with spell pen or spell resistance, but with energy damage resistance and immunity, meaning that you still have to overcome SR like usual but the damage after is not reduced (marked with "(reduced)" in the combat log plus a "-xyz" to your damage in the calculations), but your spell still simply has no effect if it fails to overcome SR in the first place. I think, my testing was not all that extensive.

It just bypasses an enemies damage reduction or immunity to a certain energy type. It doesn't guarantee damage for other factors like spell resistance, missed attack roll, or a saving throw. The enemy could be rolling some or all of those depending on the spell and their abilities. They could have additional abilities as well like evasion.

[swordfish]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Okay, so this is a problem that has been bugging me since day one, but only now have I decided to actually look into it. The mythic ability, Ascendant Element, claims that it allows the designated energy type to bypass all damage resistance and immunities towards it.

However, every time I've taken it, it seems to have absolutely no effect. I usually give this feat to Ember and Woljiff, with Ember taking Ascended Fire, and Woljiff taking Ascended Lightning.

And yet, when I cast their appropriate spells against demons and similar enemies, I've noticed that the targets just completely shrug off their attacks without even flinching. Just earlier today, I had Woljiff cast Chain Lightning while assaulting Threshold, and the spell did literally no damage at all. Seriously, I had investigation mode turned on so I could keep track of the enemy's HP, and it remained at full, even after taking a direct blast!

Maybe you are using touch ranged spells. Make sure you raise dexterity and weapon focus Ray..