Paladins and Alignment

[[CoH] Joker]

Here's a problem.

If you're a Paladin, you need to remain Lawful and Good to keep your power. No, that's not the problem.
The problem is, if you consistently do good acts as a Paladin, you wind up shifting 'up' on the chart until you slide around the circle to Neutral Good, causing you to lose your abilities. No evil necessary.
Twice now I've played a Paladin and lost my abilities because of this.

the solution to this would be to use a grid for the alignment rather than a circle... perhaps Owlcat might be willing to fix this?

[Conquista]

just follow the law, i played aeon paladin once and had no problem keeping my lawful good alignment

[Yannir]

Society would have you believe that Lawful Good is the most "good" a person can be. Because they want you to follow the rules. However, morally/ethically/philosophically Neutral Good is actually "the most good". So always picking the Good choices in this game will drag you towards Neutral Good, away from Lawful Good.

Some of the lawful options are pretty much meant for cold-hearted ♥♥♥♥♥. Try and pick the better ones. Picking the occasional Evil option can work to steer you away from NG as well. Some of those are just mean rather than downright evil. Lawful Good with a sharp tongue.

[Hex]

Then don't consistently do good. It's not that difficult. Also, many of the good choices are chaotic so it makes sense that you would shift towards neutral good. Read the text instead of just clicking (good)

[GrandMajora]

Paladins are not super heroes. They are religious zealots. It's not enough to choose 'good' all the time, you also have to choose 'lawful.'

Lawful Good is the alignment of "drive the heretics from the holy land!" You're not just righteous, you're fanatically righteous. In fact, you're so righteous, that you've gained the power to weaponize your righteousness, in the form of a divine SMITE.

This is why in D&D, the two alignments that no party likes to travel with are Chaotic Evil, and Lawful Good.

One consists almost exclusively of edge lords, and the other views any sort of fun as a sin against god.

[Raikon]

Lets see
"Enlisted female abondens everyone, and deserts"
You find her later. You can either Imprison (lawful) or let her go (good).

"I let the female go, why did I shift towards chaotic, I am a GOOD PALADIN!"
Because you let her go.......

[Raikon]

Admittedly though it can be difficult to make headway into the alignment wheel for paladin. Outside of major events, it seems like rotating between good/lawful doesnt really get you anywhere.

Early events are also devestating to your alignment. Like trickster events, and the azata events.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Raikon:

Lets see
"Enlisted female abondens everyone, and deserts"
You find her later. You can either Imprison (lawful) or let her go (good).

"I let the female go, why did I shift towards chaotic, I am a GOOD PALADIN!"
Because you let her go.......

The military isn't some job you can just 'quit' because you lost interest. According to the code of Mendev, those who are caught in the act of desertion are to be executed. Those who successfully desert, but are tracked down later, are to be shipped off to join the ranks of the condemned.

[Raikon]

Wow damn that is extreme. Yaker was totally right to suggest executing those recruits.

[Hex]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Paladins are not super heroes. They are religious zealots. It's not enough to choose 'good' all the time, you also have to choose 'lawful.'

Lawful Good is the alignment of "drive the heretics from the holy land!" You're not just righteous, you're fanatically righteous. In fact, you're so righteous, that you've gained the power to weaponize your righteousness, in the form of a divine SMITE.

This is why in D&D, the two alignments that no party likes to travel with are Chaotic Evil, and Lawful Good.

One consists almost exclusively of edge lords, and the other views any sort of fun as a sin against god.

Wrong. What you're describing is Lawful Neutral. They important part about LG is Justice, not Vengeance. More importantly, ACTING justly thmselves, not dealing it because that would be an unlawful act unless you are an appointed official. Handing out justice is the job of Priests, Elders, Kings and so on, not you.

That's why there are so many lawful options to dole out justice in this game, because you ARE an authority figure in the Crusade, it's acting leader.

You're just one of those people who starts smiting a Rogue for doing their job, and that's why no one wants anything to do with you.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by Yannir:

Society would have you believe that Lawful Good is the most "good" a person can be. Because they want you to follow the rules. However, morally/ethically/philosophically Neutral Good is actually "the most good". So always picking the Good choices in this game will drag you towards Neutral Good, away from Lawful Good.

Some of the lawful options are pretty much meant for cold-hearted ♥♥♥♥♥. Try and pick the better ones. Picking the occasional Evil option can work to steer you away from NG as well. Some of those are just mean rather than downright evil. Lawful Good with a sharp tongue.

Technically Most good is neutral or Chaotic Good.

Chaotic Good is someone who follows their own beliefs of being good to the detriment of others/society.
Neutral Good is someone who is a middle ground between following the rules and taking necessary action.
Lawful Good is someone who will aid others, but in so much that society is not harmed and the law is not broken.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Hex:

You're just one of those people who starts smiting a Rogue for doing their job, and that's why no one wants anything to do with you.

A rogue's 'job' involves stealing from people, and striking them from behind like a coward. Of course my Lawful Good character is going to have a problem with them, if he catches them in the act.

And like I said, Paladins are so self assured in their devotion, that they are able to weaponize it in the form of Smite Evil. An ability which not even Clerics (i.e priests) gain access to.

Basically, they are so devoted to purging evil wherever it can be found, that the gods saw fit to bless them with the power to call down the wrath of heaven upon those of evil dispositions.

[Conquista]

alot of people glorify paladins but wotr has a more pragmatic view of them

[KocLobster]

Originally posted by CoH Joker:

Here's a problem.

If you're a Paladin, you need to remain Lawful and Good to keep your power. No, that's not the problem.
The problem is, if you consistently do good acts as a Paladin, you wind up shifting 'up' on the chart until you slide around the circle to Neutral Good, causing you to lose your abilities. No evil necessary.
Twice now I've played a Paladin and lost my abilities because of this.

the solution to this would be to use a grid for the alignment rather than a circle... perhaps Owlcat might be willing to fix this?

I'm on my very first play-through and have been noticing this happening too. Often I want to choose actions/say things that move towards Good, and I feel compelled to choice Lawful options even though I don't want to.

[Frozen Dervish]

Originally posted by cookie!:

Originally posted by CoH Joker:

Here's a problem.

If you're a Paladin, you need to remain Lawful and Good to keep your power. No, that's not the problem.
The problem is, if you consistently do good acts as a Paladin, you wind up shifting 'up' on the chart until you slide around the circle to Neutral Good, causing you to lose your abilities. No evil necessary.
Twice now I've played a Paladin and lost my abilities because of this.

the solution to this would be to use a grid for the alignment rather than a circle... perhaps Owlcat might be willing to fix this?

I'm on my very first play-through and have been noticing this happening too. Often I want to choose actions/say things that move towards Good, and I feel compelled to choice Lawful options even though I don't want to.

The solution is to pick a class that is free to be good to the detriment of others.

[Aurumworks]

I always tend towards good choices in interpersonal matter and whenever I handle military, administration or demons, I heavily favor lawful choices. This keeps me close to the lawful good middle, just a little bit on the good side. And sometimes it's better to pick the neutral choice instead of being a goody-two-shoes pushover.