Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Hunter Este Oct 11, 2022 @ 8:29am
It would be nice if we could heal Ember's broken mind.
It would be nice if we could heal Ember's broken mind.

Maybe a DLC in the future? Also once her mind is healed, would be nice to have her as an additional romanceable option, one with a cheerful ending to it. :praisesun:
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Showing 76-90 of 140 comments
GrandMajora Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:44pm 
Originally posted by Razer:
Not sure if there's any way to realistically treat such a condition over the span of a game such as PF. I mean, unless there's a spell that can do something. Like making her forget everything. But then she's nothing.

Remember, we're talking about a setting in which magical healing exists. Meaning that the medical care system is not bound by the limitations of real world treatment options.

As I said, HEAL was able to cure a victim of their insanity in Baldur's Gate 2.

And considering that the spell restores ability score damage and cures status ailments, I see no reason to believe that it couldn't do the same thing in Pathfinder.

Failing that, Restoration or Greater Restoration might also work.
Hunter Este Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:45pm 
Originally posted by Razer:
Originally posted by Hunter Este:

I wonder if healing the magical/divine damage/influence would change her drastically? Someone mentioned that if you remove the magical/divine influences that are wreaking havoc on her mind, you might be able to restore her mind with a simple heal spell (Baulder's Gate 2 had an NPC suffering from insanity, this did the trick to restore them).
Maybe. How would you envision her to be then? Like Aerie?

That's a good question, who knows what her real personality would be like?

Perhaps its been trapped behind this fractured mess that has been in control of her body this whole time.

Imagine that, she's stuck in her body having to watch as this amalgamation of Divine Influence and Chaotic Magic controls her....her real personality might actually be more messed up.
Razer Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:48pm 
Originally posted by Hunter Este:
Originally posted by Razer:
Maybe. How would you envision her to be then? Like Aerie?

That's a good question, who knows what her real personality would be like?

Perhaps its been trapped behind this fractured mess that has been in control of her body this whole time.

Imagine that, she's stuck in her body having to watch as this amalgamation of Divine Influence and Chaotic Magic controls her....her real personality might actually be more messed up.
Even MORE messed up? Lol. Damn, I don't know if I could deal with that in the party.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by Razer:
Not sure if there's any way to realistically treat such a condition over the span of a game such as PF. I mean, unless there's a spell that can do something. Like making her forget everything. But then she's nothing.

Remember, we're talking about a setting in which magical healing exists. Meaning that the medical care system is not bound by the limitations of real world treatment options.

As I said, HEAL was able to cure a victim of their insanity in Baldur's Gate 2.

And considering that the spell restores ability score damage and cures status ailments, I see no reason to believe that it couldn't do the same thing in Pathfinder.

Failing that, Restoration or Greater Restoration might also work.
But does that completely "cure" them? Seems really strange and impossible. But then it's "magic" so perhaps it could.
Schlumpsha Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:55pm 
I would laugh so hard if healed Ember winds up Lawful Evil for using Hellfire Rays all the time and sending her foes straight to Hell.
GrandMajora Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:56pm 
Originally posted by Razer:
But does that completely "cure" them? Seems really strange and impossible. But then it's "magic" so perhaps it could.

The NPC I'm referring to was not physically injured as far as I could tell. And he'd been trapped inside a prison meant to contain a demon lord for an untold number of years. By the time we find him, the man is barely cognizant of his situation or surroundings. But once you cast HEAL on him, he immediately regains his sense of clarity, along with his memories and begins looking for a way back to the outside world.

So yeah, it seems like alleviating somebody's mental traumas is a fairly easy process. You just need to find a 12th level cleric to get you sorted out. ;-)
Last edited by GrandMajora; Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:57pm
Vampirate Oct 11, 2022 @ 3:56pm 
Originally posted by Razer:
Originally posted by Vampirate:
Well, even if the law says it's ok they're still a pedo. Probably should revise the law.
The law doesn't define pedo. The law is there to protect people who can be mentally swayed by older people to perform acts they otherwise would not want to. The law itself has no relevance to how people feel or if things are right or wrong.
Yeah, which is why it should be revised in states where it's too low
Kinda nuts that we even bring this traumatised child along to battle with us, come to think of it. I never felt comfortable bringing Trever along on missions because the guy is clearly mentally scarred and needs to be kept as far away from battle as possible. Bringing him to fight more demons just felt.. unethical. Not sure why I don't feel as bad about bringing Ember though, I guess the relentless positivity just kinda rubbed off on me in the same way it did for Nocticula.

I still think y'all are messed up for even trying to argue a case for taking her to poundland though. Arguments about the semantics within the fictional universe can always be concocted - that's the very nature of fiction. It is still at its most fundamental level a rationalization for slamming the juicy butt of an obviously underage character.

The nature of her powers is pretty amazing to think about, though. Nocticula's conversion comes across as bad writing with any explanation other than Ember's patron being something of truly unfathomable and incredible power.
Vampirate Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:04pm 
Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:
Kinda nuts that we even bring this traumatised child along to battle with us, come to think of it. I never felt comfortable bringing Trever along on missions because the guy is clearly mentally scarred and needs to be kept as far away from battle as possible. Bringing him to fight more demons just felt.. unethical. Not sure why I don't feel as bad about bringing Ember though, I guess the relentless positivity just kinda rubbed off on me in the same way it did for Nocticula.

I still think y'all are messed up for even trying to argue a case for taking her to poundland though. Arguments about the semantics within the fictional universe can always be concocted - that's the very nature of fiction. It is still at its most fundamental level a rationalization for slamming the juicy butt of an obviously underage character.

The nature of her powers is pretty amazing to think about, though. Nocticula's conversion comes across as bad writing with any explanation other than Ember's patron being something of truly unfathomable and incredible power.
Battle doesn't really bother her. Hell her own getting burned alive didn't seem to bother her. I run her as a healer when I have her on the team.
BoogieMan Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:08pm 
I think there are some cultural and personal biases being used as if they are facts in this thread.

If we take Ember as she is presented in the game, there is nothing to overtly indicate she is a child. What she does seem to be is incredibly innocent and naive which are traits traditionally attributed to children, hence the bias from players. Owlcats description (if that's what they actually said) could also be due to the same biases as many people in this thread. So, beyond Owlcat's written description, there isn't anything else to say that she's a child.

So to break it all down:

-She appears in game to be physically an young adult elf, similar to a 18-20 year old human. Her age is also beyond that which elves are considered adults.
-She suffered extreme trauma, barely surviving being burned at the stake, after being
rescued by a sympathetic knight.
-She was clearly damaged by said trauma, both physically and mentally.
-She is not very fearful of death or harm, after having had such a close brush with it already.
-She obviously has gained some extremely powerful insight into the hearts and minds of others, and knows when and what to say to help promote a positive change, if she can stir the heart of Nocticula, you know there is something incredible to that ability.
-She claims to have been taught her magic by Soot, her Raven companion. Either she is delusional, or more likely that Soot is much more than the simple Raven familiar he seems to be.
-Many people who had their hearts touched by her consider her something of a saint and/or a religious figure.

Seems to me her endured trauma, insightful nature, and new outlook on life simply gives her a childlike naivety that everyone is assuming results in her being mentally disabled with the mind of a child in an adult body. Possible? Of course, but it's not certain. She could just be optimistic and hopeful to a fault. There are adults out in the real world who are what many would call incredibly naive and seemingly unaware of how cruel the world can be, and some of those people just don't care, because they are just optimistic and hopeful of heart.

Do I agree with her not being one of the possible romances? Absolutely. But I'd say it's more of a grey area do to the perceptions of others than inappropriate because we don't have enough information on to know without a doubt exactly where on that spectrum she is psychologically. She herself would have to prove that to others, that she isn't the naive child they perceive her to be, and that seems like something she may not be capable of doing.

So in my opinion, no one can say either way with certainty because I don't believe there is enough information, and most of the reasons pointing one direction I believe are more the result of cultural and personal bias.

She is quite similar personality wise to Aerie the Avariel Elf from Baldur's Gate 2, if you're familiar. If someone put out similar information about Aerie ahead of Baldur's Gate 2's release, I think it would have affected people's perception of her and the romantic connection she can have with the main character.
Last edited by BoogieMan; Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:18pm
Vampirate Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:09pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:
Arguments about the semantics within the fictional universe can always be concocted - that's the very nature of fiction. It is still at its most fundamental level a rationalization for slamming the juicy butt of an obviously underage character.

Once again, she's not underage. She is physically an adult, both in terms of lore, as well as character model. Also, she's 100 years old, so unless the law of Mendev says that only the geriatrics are allowed to shack up with each other...?
This one of those type of things were people be watching those hentais where they like "it's a 1000 year old ghost in a little girl's body so it's ok" No it's not. The character model is what it is for in game mechanic reasons, but literally everyone in the story identifies her as a child and her profile pic is a child. She a child, physically and mentally.
Pretty much. First reply to this thread is the devs literally saying she's too young, and yet people still wanna try to argue lmao.
Vampirate Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:12pm 
Originally posted by BoogieMan:
-She claims to have been taught her magic by Soot, her Raven companion. Either she is delusional, or more likely that Soot is much more than the simple Raven familiar he seems to be.
Soot is a familiar sent by Grandmother Crow, which the Crow itself indicates and is identified as such in highlighted text. Ember is proected by/an avatar of Grandmother Crow. if you push her down a lawful neutral/primarily lawful but good route she actually gains an additional spell instead of charisma increase cause she becomes more in tune with Grandmother Crow.
Is Ember the only party member Daeran is nice to..? I wonder if there's some connection there, since they both have some sort of near-omnipotent and mysterious otherworldly entity directing their lives.
GrandMajora Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:13pm 
Originally posted by BoogieMan:
-She obviously has gained some extremely powerful insight into the hearts and minds of others, and knows when and what to say to help promote a positive change, if she can stir the heart of Nocticula, you know there is something incredible to that ability.

Nocticula was going to abandon her evil ways regardless of Ember's involvement with her. Her transformation into the redeemer queen is canon in the Pathfinder universe. And when you meet her, she's able to see the Hand of the Inheritor, despite the fact that some of the most powerful demons in the story, like the Echo of Deskari, and Areelu herself were unable to perceive him.

In other words, Nocticula was already on the path to forsaking her evil nature long before Ember showed up in her palace. She was just supremely effective at hiding it.
BoogieMan Oct 11, 2022 @ 4:14pm 
Originally posted by GrandMajora:
Originally posted by BoogieMan:
-She obviously has gained some extremely powerful insight into the hearts and minds of others, and knows when and what to say to help promote a positive change, if she can stir the heart of Nocticula, you know there is something incredible to that ability.

Nocticula was going to abandon her evil ways regardless of Ember's involvement with her. Her transformation into the redeemer queen is canon in the Pathfinder universe. And when you meet her, she's able to see the Hand of the Inheritor, despite the fact that some of the most powerful demons in the story, like the Echo of Deskari, and Areelu herself were unable to perceive him.

In other words, Nocticula was already on the path to forsaking her evil nature long before Ember showed up in her palace. She was just supremely effective at hiding it.

I said from evidence presented in the game. Also, there are many other people who she changed, and some of them are demons, too.
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Date Posted: Oct 11, 2022 @ 8:29am
Posts: 140