Help requested! Monk Lich build

[Waldo]

I have been having problems deciding between a quarterstaff master and a scaled fist. I was a quarterstaff master\two hand fighter up until I got to choose my path and I made two discoveries, decaying touch seems like a pretty good buff for unarmed and that charisma will dictate my future health (noticed this on my skele boi, and forgot about it from kingmaker)

This seems to synergize with the scaled fist extremely well, I currently have two saves and I cant figure out which one to go with both are some version of a trip build and a demoralize build

my plans between the two are either:

QM 12\ 2H fighter 7\ Crossblooded sorc 1- style strike trip\cornugon smash\dreadful carnage...crane style sorta (monk styles dont work too well with QM, or at all, but just the basic crane style helps if I want to pump up my D)

Scaled Fist 19\ Crossblooded 1- pummeling style\cornugon smash\dreadful carnage

the dip in sorc is for the arcane BL raven companion and undead BL which I ascend for the one of us power combining with the lich indestructible bones for a total of 15 dr\all

When comparing the two the QM has much higher attack and damage and can sacrifice some attack for some pretty decently high AC thanks to crane style (other than skele boi vanguard its the highest AC), on paper when looking at the two the QM is better in every way except it gets only 1 free trip attempt and the scaled fist gets two with pummeling bully and leg sweep.

What im concerned about is that charisma is my dump stat for QM so im gonna lose hella health later since wis dictates my persuasion also im unsure as to just how powerful decaying touch is since this is my highest level character ive had (im on the cusp of level 10) and with natural 15 dr\all will I even care about a 7 charisma score? seems pretty strong at the moment but im assuming that feeling wont last lol

Im looking for any advice or even just personal opinions and preferences, its been 3 days since I reached this point, I had decided to make a QM\2H fighter azata for a good playthrough and do the lich as scaled fist, figured I could stay lawful for at least 12 levels.....but upon reloading my evil playthrough to continue I realized I forgot to do this and I actually made a shield bash slayer for my good playthrough lol

Any help would be appreciated and sorry for the TLDR amount of typing

[Raikon]

Lich used to be pretty attractive for melee builds. You got around 10 stgnth, 10 dex, and depending on your level a good hp bonus. However that was removed with either a hotfix, or a patch ( I forget) I had a Qautermaster monk that obliterated enemies. Now it would just be slightly above average.

I dont really reccomend either as a lich. Instead of a bonus, you lose your vitality , this means you get a -2 strgnth, -2 dex just for being a lich. But if you have your heart set, I would choose scaled fist. Atleast stacking charisma will give you a lot of HP, and AC. If you could fit 1 level of Oracle in your build that would make it better and you could serve as a tank at least.

[RedwoodElf]

By taking a noncasting class with Lich, you realize that you're going to have an uphill battle. No combined spellbook means no massive boost to caster level, so your spell penetration will be pretty bad on the lich spells that have to worry about SP.

Maybe, if you want to go scaled fist, start with a Kitsune, dip into Stigmatized Witch for Iceplant AC bonus, Lizard familiar and Wolf Scarred Face for an extra bite attack and the most AC you can get at level 1, then go Scaled fist with Crane and Dodge ASAP for more AC (With a high Charisma, your AC would be near 30 in chapter 1, nearly untouchable.)

Don't dump charisma, lean into it and Dex, and go for maxing out weapon finesse so you can get Dex as a damage stat on your unarmed attacks (Including multiple bite attacks!) Add on the Indistructable bones, etc, and you'll be the tankiest tank who ever tanked with no armor.

[Waldo]

Oh...there is a nerf to my str and dex as well? well ♥♥♥♥, I mostly wanted to just roll with the punches but that does seem really suck...unfortunately its not really that my heart is set on monk lich but more.... ive gone too far, I literally thought to myself I should reload and save once I chose my path but I was a little to caught up in the story and just kept rolling, so now im committed.

I have only looked up basic info since I wanted to be as spoiler free as possible, guess thats my own fault

[Raikon]

A Nature oracle would be much better, you can still get the bite, and it makes charisma replace your dex, so you dont need to focus both. I agree with the kitsune.

[Waldo]

I remember when this game was launching there where claims that the lich would be perfectly viable for melee characters too, I mostly planned on the spells for buffs and wanted the companions and undead buffs for the melee, I guess the first guy that commented mentioned something about a patch changing some things up.

I put this game down for a while waiting for the main campaign bugs to get fixed so I kinda missed out on that info

I'll have to look into this oracle thing and possibly start from scratch

[Raikon]

The nerf to lich is very recent. Probably came with the excess DLC, because it was overpowered with all the extra stats.

[Waldo]

it was the dlc that got me to come back lol, not that I cared about playing it yet, I just assumed that if the dlc had been comming out then the bugs where probably mostly fixed

[Waldo]

guess I just missed the dope lich\deathknight build train

[Raikon]

You can get a massive AC though, not many things would be able to hit you. You sacrifice a lot with this guild though. Lich has the best spells in the game, and you wont be able to cast many of them, or very well. You wont do much melee damage when you do land hits. Ultimate tank thou, with lots of HP, AC, immunities, resists, and minions to follow you around.

Still not worth it though imo.

[fox5s]

You could actually use Dex as your dump stat by taking a level of Oracle and picking up Nature's Whisper.

Take a look at the Olivia's Lich guide in the Steam Guides and see if it gives you any ideas. I've tried it and it's been working out pretty well. I'm not strictly following it (or soloing in Unfair) but it has been a good baseline. (Two bites and two flurry attacks with a pretty decent AC at level 2 is a pretty solid base.)

[Aliceskysareblue]

the minus 2 to physical states is annoying but there are plenty of items that boost strength and dex, the lich is now very equipment dependant. and the actual state loss doesnt happen until act 5.

the bigger issue is that the game basically forces you to be a caster, as there is no undead caster companions, and mythic spellbook is limited. if your going to do a melee build play as a magus or something.

[titanopteryx]

I tried a melee lich. There's something about the -2 to physical stats though. Eventually you fully become undead and the lich has an effect where he boosts the stats of nearby friendly undead, including himself. So when you turn full undead you lose -2 to your stats but gain a boost as well.

[Conquista]

do these -2 to ability score really matter, like can't you just buff up at that point so much that 2 points only make a marginal difference

[Raikon]

-2 doesnt really matter.

Demon gives +6 stregnth passively, and can get another +10 in a form. Does +18 stregnth really matter?

Trickster can give +8 dex (I think with the small spell), Does +10 dex really matter?

Azata can give +6 any stat. Does + 16 stats really matter?

Legend, Gold dragon give a lot of stats.

Lich taketh awaith. So if lich was the only path for melee, no it wouldnt matter. But it starts to matter when you can melee as a different path much better without negatives.

[Conquista]

i did not understand your answer