Why Ember Is My Least Favorite Companion

[GrandMajora]

What, exactly, is this character's deal? Because judging by my multiple playthroughs of this game (as the time of writing this, I've beaten the game as every path except Aeon), it seems like Ember does nothing but contradict herself at every conceivable opportunity.

One second, she's preaching about how people, demons, and even the gods themselves are 'silly' and don't know anything. How they're scared and confused, and can't help anybody, and how the key to making the world a better place is to just be nice to everyone. But then in the next moment, she's saying that SHE'S the one who's silly and doesn't know what she's talking about, and how we shouldn't listen to her. Only for her to then go on and become saddened or disappointed when people don't take her advice and continue hurting each other!

Which is it, Ember? What the hell are you trying to teach us? Should we heed your advice, or should we dismiss you as a foolish child? Are the gods just as lost as we are, or should we give you back over to Hulrun so he can finish burning you at the stake for heresy? What is the point of you being here!?

[corisai]

GrandMajora a écrit :

If 55 is equivalent to an 8 year old, then 100 would be somewhere in the ballpark of 16 years.

Yes (that's exactly in rules as age of adulthood).

But if 55-years-old elf have same physical penalties as 8-years-old human child - then
mentally whole race is retarded as it need so much time to became mentally equal to 16-years-old human :)

Never understand what a @#$% retard designed this "feature" of elves or why he hated them so much =/

D&D at least tried to reduce it's non-sense in their "elven" rulebook, but it still remain stupid - race that need 50 years to pass their teen ages o_O

[Drake]

Don't also forget that she's a stigmatised witch and she's pretty much possessed by an archon (this is what I like about owlcat, they integrate the class into the roleplay). The contradiction usually comes from dialog that are not actually from her but induced by her patron andoletta. I'm going to say that stake episode rendered her nuts and her patron is pretty much mind controlling her to do her biding.

[GrandMajora]

corisai a écrit :

Never understand what a @#$% retard designed this "feature" of elves or why he hated them so much =/

D&D at least tried to reduce it's non-sense in their "elven" rulebook, but it still remain stupid - race that need 50 years to pass their teen ages o_O

Well in both game settings, the elves appear to be depicted as being traditionally xenophobic, or at least viewing the other races of the world with pity. They don't like associating themselves with other races for whom entire generations pass before the elf even has to worry about suffering a midlife crisis.

Could chalk their stunted development up to the fact elves spend their first century living in a very sheltered community, surrounded by nothing but fellow elves, and having little to no interaction with the outside world?

[Drake]

GrandMajora a écrit :

corisai a écrit :

Never understand what a @#$% retard designed this "feature" of elves or why he hated them so much =/

D&D at least tried to reduce it's non-sense in their "elven" rulebook, but it still remain stupid - race that need 50 years to pass their teen ages o_O

Well in both game settings, the elves appear to be depicted as being traditionally xenophobic, or at least viewing the other races of the world with pity. They don't like associating themselves with other races for whom entire generations pass before the elf even has to worry about suffering a midlife crisis.

Could chalk their stunted development up to the fact elves spend their first century living in a very sheltered community, surrounded by nothing but fellow elves, and having little to no interaction with the outside world?

In pathfinder elves are actually aliens (they come from castrovel, a planet close to golarion), so they don't really fit in the world and don't really mingle.

[corisai]

GrandMajora a écrit :

Could chalk their stunted development up to the fact elves spend their first century living in a very sheltered community, surrounded by nothing but fellow elves, and having little to no interaction with the outside world?

Probably but still would require either alien mind or alien physiology (later is impossible as we have cross-breeds, IMHO Tolkien trolled his fans a lot via introduction of half-elves - horses & horse races were favorite amusement in their time so high society know a few things about breeding).

Major issue - xenophobic isolated communities require strict opressive laws or it simply will not work at all. Then how @#$% on Earth elves society could be Chaotic good?!

[corisai]

Drake a écrit :

In pathfinder elves are actually aliens (they come from castrovel, a planet close to golarion), so they don't really fit in the world and don't really mingle.

They can't be real aliens thanks to half-elves :) Only possible solution that they were highly advanced humans and bypass major improvement of their genome (but still humanly enough for fertile crossbreed).

And yes, if we have nano-machines & cyborgs - we can speak about now-not-fully-fantasy genetics. As addition of genres work in two ways :)

[GrandMajora]

corisai a écrit :

Probably but still would require either alien mind or alien physiology (later is impossible as we have cross-breeds, IMHO Tolkien trolled his fans a lot via introduction of half-elves - horses & horse races were favorite amusement in their time so high society know a few things about breeding).

Major issue - xenophobic isolated communities require strict opressive laws or it simply will not work at all. Then how @#$% on Earth elves society could be Chaotic good?!

I was told that it was WotC who introduced the concept of Half Elves and Half Orcs into the fantasy genre. In terms of Tolkien's work, they were all pure bloods.

As for the alien mindset, try to bare in mind that we're talking about a species who has the capacity to not only be just as intelligent as any human, but has a life span which measures in several hundred years. Even being able to extend to a millennium if they're lucky enough. Such individuals would undoubtedly perceive time far differently than we do.

The older we get, the faster time seems to slip by for us (or is that just me?). Imagine how quickly elves would lose track of time after a couple centuries.

Elf: Wow, you've gotten big! How old are you now?

Half Elf: I'm 18, dad...

Elf: EIGHTEEN!? I swear I only left you alone for a moment, what the hell happened!?

Half Elf: You left to get milk about 12 years ago...

[Meterex137]

GrandMajora a écrit :

She's not literally a child though. If I understand the lore correctly, elves physically mature at the same rate as humans do, but their culture does not accept them as such until they're at least a century old.

Ember was born the same day the Worldwound opened, making her at least 100 years old at the time the story takes place. In accordance with elven culture, she is a decade away (at most) from being a full grown adult. And by human standards, she is long past that point.

Calling Ember a 'child' is like calling a 20 year old a child, just because your state's drinking laws require you to be at least 21 before consuming alcohol.

I call Ember a child because that's how she is mentally. Look at how she acts, what she says, and how others treat her. Everything screams that she's about the equivalent of 12 year old kid. She even comments on the fact that Woljif grew up while she stayed the same. I don't know all the mechanics behind elf aging in Pathfinder 1e, but she clearly hasn't matured enough to understand the world around her beyond simple emotions. Maybe her trauma and being an orphan has something to do with it?

[seeker1]

I've said this before: pay attention, at least twice I heard her voice actress start talking in a more adult manner, then clear her throat, and say something more "childlike sounding". (Sorta realizing she had given something away.)

There may be more than one person in the party doing some pretending. This is also MHO.

[corisai]

seeker1 a écrit :

I've said this before: pay attention, at least twice I heard her voice actress start talking in a more adult manner, then clear her throat, and say something more "childlike sounding". (Sorta realizing she had given something away.)

There may be more than one person in the party doing some pretending. This is also MHO.

Knowing Ember past - it could be split personality :)

Or something possessing her regained full control of her mind. It's possible as her brainwashing abilities are stronger then even Desna, lol. So something incredibly powerful is behind her.

[GrandMajora]

corisai a écrit :

Knowing Ember past - it could be split personality :)

Or something possessing her regained full control of her mind. It's possible as her brainwashing abilities are stronger then even Desna, lol. So something incredibly powerful is behind her.

Andoletta (AKA, Grandmother Crow): is the name of an Empyreal Lord, who are basically the Celestial versions of a Demon Lord, or an Arch Devil. They're not actually deities, but they possess enough power to be worshiped as such.

[corisai]

GrandMajora a écrit :

Andoletta (AKA, Grandmother Crow): is the name of an Empyreal Lord, who are basically the Celestial versions of a Demon Lord, or an Arch Devil. They're not actually deities, but they possess enough power to be worshiped as such.

They are WEAKER then deities and have ~equal with Demon Lords.

Nobody of them capable to brainwash demons with a wave of hand.
Nobody of them capable to know future of Nocticula (as ~equally powerful creature).

If only Ember not brainwashed demons - I could agree that it's a Andoletta work. But no, she nowhere near such power.

[Shinno]

Yes, thank you! I'm typically roleplay as a religious character, mainly as a cleric, and can't stand her 'abolish the gods' sort of behavior. It would be fun if my mc could actually TALK BACK on the matter. Just take my reward is what I'm saying.

[Lywelyn]

well, Ember is a child in mind, although an elder in human livespawn, she's still a early teen in elf lifespawn,

as Woljif said " she's a couple card short of a full deck "

thinking everyone can be redeem and has good in them.

althought you need a religion check to find out, she : is the grand daugther of Andoletta, an Empyreal Lord of goodness and soot the crow that follow her around is sort of her bodygard teaching her all that andoletta give her to "preach" understand by preaching that she convince their surrounding and defend herself with speech and powerfull spells, mostly from good/sun/healing domain

[GrandMajora]

Speaking of Ember, I have found an R34 pic involving her and... the Swarm that Walks...

I should be appalled, but I've arguably heard worse on D&D Horror Stories.