Is Wisdom useless to a Paladin?

[e11]

Asking, because of Divine Grace. It only makes sense to give a paladin super high Charisma to get the most out of the divine abilities, including a fat bonus to saving throws. I was going to give my pally 12-14 in Wisdom, but on reflection I don't see the point. It does boost some skills a little, and the pally is desperately short on skill points, but does the main character actually need skills, other than the communication ones? Can't party members handle that side of things?

[Mr. Hanky]

Makes a difference as far as spellcasting is concerned, but, tbh, I almost always forget about Paladin spells. Strength and Charisma are king for Paladin.

[e11]

Originally posted by Mr. Hanky:

Makes a difference as far as spellcasting is concerned, but, tbh, I almost always forget about Paladin spells. Strength and Charisma are king for Paladin.

Don't Paladins use Charisma for spellcasting?

[gmwaddington]

Wisdom doesn't matter a lot for Paladins (note that Charisma is their casting stat).

The main character doesn't need a lot of skills. You probably want to concentrate on Diplomacy.

[Nismu]

unless you want higher perception or will saves Wisdom doesn't do much else for paladin.

If you choose to have horse having high mobility with mounted feats helps a lot. ( and you can make your paladin lot more offensive while horse handles the most tanking. )

[e11]

Originally posted by Nismu:

unless you want higher perception or will saves Wisdom doesn't do much else for paladin.

If you choose to have horse having high mobility with mounted feats helps a lot. ( and you can make your paladin lot more offensive while horse handles the most tanking. )

How does wisdom help with mounted combat?

[Nismu]

Originally posted by e11:

How does wisdom help with mounted combat?

It doesn't. It was more answer to about needing skills

[fox5s]

As someone mentioned before, a Paladin's casting stat is Cha. You can mostly dump wisdom though, maybe not fully to 7 cause it still goes into your will save. Int will get you skill points if that is what you need. Paladins used to be Wisdom casters (until DnD 3.5) so you used to want to leave a 14 there. However, Pathfinder switched them to Cha.

Also, just from using Seelah, Paladin spells get rather strong. Surprisingly, there are some decent self buffs even at first level. (+2 AC vs Demons and undead at 10 mins per level? Yes please!) It's overkill but I even feel that the first Abundant Casting isn't a total waste on them. Just don't expect they to attack with their spells. They don't have the spare feats to make their offensive casting meaningful (lvl 3 Holy Word has never gotten past a saving throw even when it breaks SR for me).

[jsaving]

Paladins needing wisdom for spells or mounted combat is bad information which you should ignore. But charisma on the other hand is the most important stat you'll have, from both divine grace and the massive DPS bonus you'll eventually bestow on the party when you use mark of justice.

[t]

wisdom is very useless. Wisdom gives will saves but Paladins get bonus to saves based on their Charisma modifier, essentially making Wisdom useless for them.

[GrandMajora]

For decades, I've been under the assumption that because they were divine spellcasters, Paladins used wisdom as a casting stat. Only recently learning that they are, in fact, CHARISMA based casters.

No wonder my builds for Paladins in previous D&D games were so terrible!

[Drake]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

For decades, I've been under the assumption that because they were divine spellcasters, Paladins used wisdom as a casting stat. Only recently learning that they are, in fact, CHARISMA based casters.

No wonder my builds for Paladins in previous D&D games were so terrible!

Because for decades that was the case. Paladins using CHA has only been a thing for less than 15 years with pathfinder and D&D 4E.

[synnworld]

Of course, your a paladin, your job isn't to be wise but an overzealous zealot who either kills anyone your religion pronounced as evil or try to convert other to your religion.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Mr. Hanky:

Makes a difference as far as spellcasting is concerned, but, tbh, I almost always forget about Paladin spells. Strength and Charisma are king for Paladin.

The only thing they are good for are conditional uses(VERY useful vs Ecorche for example) and to give your Armor / Weapons some viability(you can sorta progress them, so you can pick and match without worrying about +x). But it's not Paladin specific AND Paladin already has the "Bless Weapon" ability, so...

You don't need it above 14, similar how a Bloodrager don't really need CHA above 14. Hell, it's even worse for bRager given that WIS at least gives some +Will saves and CHA is, generally, completely useless.