Experts: Witch or Sorcerer w/ Undead Bloodline for Lich Path?

[Homer Morisson]

As so many of us, I'm still in the process of nailing down my first build, and since the most recent beta update added the ability for Witches to merge spellbooks with Lich, I'm once again torn.

I've actually never played Witch before, but I'm very intrigued by the Hexes, as they seem a hell of a lot more useful than Cantrips and seem to be almost as always-castable.

So, dear Tabletop and otherwise Pathfinder-experts:
In your own opinion, which would be the overall better Offensive Caster with a side of Crowd Control build for Lich Path,

1) Sorcerer w/ Undead Bloodline

or

2) Witch (does Patron choice matter much here?)

for going Lich Caster w/ Merged Spellbooks?

[GrandMajora]

Remember, Witches keep their spells stored inside their familiar, instead of an actual spell book. Meaning that those of you on the Lich path are using your magical pet to rip people's souls out of their body and turn it into a bone lance, or whatever!

[Insanity_184]

Publicado originalmente por GrandMajora:

Remember, Witches keep their spells stored inside their familiar, instead of an actual spell book. Meaning that those of you on the Lich path are using your magical pet to rip people's souls out of their body and turn it into a bone lance, or whatever!

When you become a lich you simply stop using the familiar to cast spells. On later levels you gain the death domain and can grant spells. So if it makes you feel better your familiar is guilt free of the soul ripping.

That said sorcerer is better. The spell list is more robust and hex’s are not as useful later in the game.

Though the bloodline I assume is for role play because you will get a lot of the same ability’s as a lich.

[Homer Morisson]

Yeah, the Undead Bloodline is mostly for roleplaying/congruency, as in my Sorc is well on his way toward Lichdom even before the Mythic Path begins, by making himself more like an Undead.

Thanks for your input re: hexes losing relevancy later on.

As for BL, what would be the obvious "best" choice for Lich then... Arcane maybe?

[Phantom]

ZOO mancer

always the undead army

[Insanity_184]

Arcane meshes well. Also there is a mythic power that gives you a second bloodline and all the powers associated as if the same level as your current blood line.

So you can have two just costs a mythic ability.

[r_collins36]

Both are perfect for lich, so up to you.

[Homer Morisson]

Publicado originalmente por Insanity_184:

Arcane meshes well. Also there is a mythic power that gives you a second bloodline and all the powers associated as if the same level as your current blood line.

So you can have two just costs a mythic ability.

I was also considering using the Abyss Bloodline for its Augemented Summoning feat... that should also buff my undead minions, right?

[Mara80]

Publicado originalmente por Homer Morisson:

I was also considering using the Abyss Bloodline for its Augemented Summoning feat... that should also buff my undead minions, right?

Why not 2 Bloodlines from the very start off ;) ? Because... you can...

[Homer Morisson]

Publicado originalmente por Mara80:

Publicado originalmente por Homer Morisson:

I was also considering using the Abyss Bloodline for its Augemented Summoning feat... that should also buff my undead minions, right?

Why not 2 Bloodlines from the very start off ;) ? Because... you can...

Because Crossblooded Sorcerer has major negative effects and only makes sense for a few very specific builds.

[Bluesy]

So I played witch via the Call of the Wild mod in kingmaker and it translated…poorly from tabletop.

To expand on what’s already been said, most of the enemy affecting hexes being single target is an issue along with the neutered spell list. Why slumber/icy tomb one guy when you could just spam sirocco or whatever and keep a whole group locked down? The opportunity cost just isn’t there for witch imo. These games are so combat heavy compared to table top that hexes just don’t really cut it. Also I found keeping Cackle on to be kind of irritating.

Not saying it’s unplayable or anything close, just not a strong pick if you’re wanting power over flavor. Only thing I’m not sure about is if there’s a mythic path/ability that could make hexes AoE.

[krwr12]

Wizard is always better than sorc. Besides, undead bloodline features would be mostly redundant with the lich path.

[Peelsepuuppi]

If anything the undead bloodline feels kind of redundant for a Lich.

[Daddy]

Publicado originalmente por Homer Morisson:

Publicado originalmente por Insanity_184:

Arcane meshes well. Also there is a mythic power that gives you a second bloodline and all the powers associated as if the same level as your current blood line.

So you can have two just costs a mythic ability.

I was also considering using the Abyss Bloodline for its Augemented Summoning feat... that should also buff my undead minions, right?

Undead don´t count as summons so they don´t benefit from augmented summoning or anything that gives bonuses to summons unless is specifically mentions undead. This is because technically you raise undead and don´t summon them, they just work like summons to make it work in the context of a videogame.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Publicado originalmente por krwr12:

Wizard is always better than sorc. Besides, undead bloodline features would be mostly redundant with the lich path.

In what universe is wizard always better than Sorc in a video game like this? In tabletop maybe. But for a player who is familiar with a game like this. I don't see how wizard would be better. Someone who knows what spells to prioritize will benefit more from spontaneous casting and more spell uses per day than versatility provided by the wizard.

[Vyper]

Arcane bloodline then the mythic feat to take a 2nd bloodline of whichever flavour you like.

or

Wizard with enchanter spec for aura of despair for extra AoE negative to enemy saves. You can take a mythic feat that applies all of your spell focus feats to a second school of magic so enchanter and necromancy. Huge debuffs, damage and control.

or

Witch 3, Druid or cleric 3, Mystic theurge 10 then finish the witch levels. This build with witch/druid gives you really strong druid summons like the swarm spells later on and all of the great witch debuffs. It starts off really slow though but later on you're a caster powerhouse.