Unarmored melee units = Disadvantaged? (vs Armored melee units)

[Cyborg009]

I am still fairly new to Urtuk, only 60+ hours play time. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a rapid strike assassin, big axe welding barb, or a warmonk with a giant maul to pound opponent senseless.

But armor is so good, can regenerate if not broken. And each armor slot gave another chance for equipment upgrade, plus another trait (if you find such gear)

I really wanted to give those unarmored melee units a chance. For example, the warmonk unit. no armor, wields a giant maul and can jump. Stunning blow mutator (mace/maul only) seemed like a good fit, so does Lethal blow (3x damage vs stunned), and use last slot for util/survival.

On actual play, jumping warmonk behind front line or trying to flank just means he was out of heal or assist range, and if I don't pull him back at first sign of trouble, he would die so quickly to crit or a couple enemies' backstabs.

Okay, back to the drawing board, more mutator slots used for survival, keep him not too far from group. Then I begin to think, didn't my warmonk just become another regular melee units? Only weaker compared to regular armored front liners. Then I noticed I already have berserker, assassin, axeman all in the same boat.

Here is a question, for a party of six, besides the priest and two missile guys, would you take 3 unarmored melee or 3 armored melee?

My own answer to that is I would take 3 armored guys. Not because they are more fun, but they are just better in current game setup.

[Jeembo]

You hit the nail on the head. Right now in the current state there doesn't seem to be a reason to take unarmored vs armored for the reasons you have mentioned, which is a real shame because I was digging my zerker so much :(( but he is just falling so far behind now that I can get armor+traits

[CeeRo]

2 spearguys, a pikeman, 2 archers and a priest is what i'm running. I've also found the unarmored melees lacking.
My priest has some nasty crits at this point tho, and his hp regen/lifeleeching keeps him alive. I guess that could work for unarmored melees too, hp regen when anyone dies around you and such

[skeletalhammer]

The good thing about unarmored melee guys is that EVERYONE guns for them. I use a triangle formation of 2 guardians with high stamina blocking for a blood knight, and there could be 4 enemies pounding on the blood knight with no success because the guardians just block all the hits and he just dishes out the pain. Even if those guys dont get armor, it would be nice to get them all 3 slots so they have an equal amount of mutators from items, even if theyre trinket slots or something.

[The Rusty Shack]

agreed, maybe if it breaks you go back to stock standard? Just an idea

[cifrelettere]

I don't know. The warmonk has some good uses in certain maps and the Berserker's armor-destroying abilities are crazy. Also, Berserkers tend to be able to stack HP very very well so any % regen can make them nearly unkillable. Once armored guys have their armor busted they fall pretty quickly in my experience.

[Emperor Fooble]

I love the Swamper unarmoured melee guy that looks like he has a beehive on his head.

He might not have armour, but he has a lot of natural regeneration, and with some mutators can be just as tanky as my guardian.

[titanopteryx]

It depends on the difficulty. On easy and normal melee dps can be really good. On hard they tend to die in 1 hit from like Mansplitters unless you put most or all their points into vit. However melee dps can backstab, which activates mutstors that activate on a crit. Like healing, status ailment inflicting, temporary stat increases, so forth. In fact, a monk-assassin combo is really strong, because the monk can jump to the enemy's side opposite the assassin which allows the assassin to backstab. Also melee dps make great lesser vampires if you do the vampire start.

[Zarkis]

Armored guys can't dish out the damage unarmored ones can. My berserker is a powerhouse with the right mutations and kills stuff quick.

[Dad]

Agreed, my zerker is a killing machine. He started with Improvisation, and I threw Last Stand mutator on him. Later I gave him Feast and the other one that regens when someone dies next to him. He doesn't need armor when he regens all the damage he takes!

[elusivehe]

I played 40+ hours on hard. You can use berserker only with guard. Other unarmored melee useless in any combination.

[Twitch.tv/KAEN_SG]

played about 60ish hours on stream at max difficulty. my berserker started out with a guardian escort but right now at lvl 20+ he can solo the entire map on his own without any escorts. with the right upgrades, he is incredibly powerful.

[DT]

Unarmored melee units hit harder but also got hit harder. (Plus most of there weapons have higher % shatter armor)

Armored melee unit liver longer but there attack power much lower.

There are a lot of mutations to fix those problem. If you can't figure out how to fix that or really hate it. You can make a team with no Unarmored melee units too. It your choice.

There also non-starter unit with High output weapon + plus armor for you can hire or got from event.

[Kittenpaw]

And here I love my Assassin and Bezerker..... they both murder like crazy and self-sustain with the proper mutations and focus skills.

[Cyborg009]

Originally posted by Kittenpaw:

And here I love my Assassin and Bezerker..... they both murder like crazy and self-sustain with the proper mutations and focus skills.

Please tell us which mutators and focus skills on your Assassin and Berserker. Thank you.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

My Urtuk berserker has 969 health with 24 VIT, -29% max HP from Urtuk and +25% from innate berserker's bonus. My pikeman has 1124 health at 25 VIT. Relic of drol pushes Utruk health pool to 1484, Rage! gives him crit every time his health is below 65%, with Vigorous he gets 25% max health regen in 2 turns every time he crits, droll adds another 20% max health regen for the first 10 turns. His focus is overriten with last stand, lucky fast thinker mutation (can be slotted instead of Rage! as a mutator) gives 2 last stand abilities at the start of any combat. Basically, he is unkillable at this point. And he deals tons of damage with his double strike. Another option is to build crit squard with patience, bleed on crit mutators and life leech vs bleeding mutators.
Warmonk is an insane unit that can oneshot any light unit with flip. He is also an incredible flanker with his jump ability, that allows him to instantly stun any unarmored unit.
Another thing to consider is how damage works in this game. Unit gain +4% weapon damage per every str point above 4. Thing is, different weapons have different base damage. Silver spear has 68 base damage, silver billhook has 74, a common steel greatsword has 101 and steel axe should have something around 80-85. At str 29 difference between weapon classes doubles. Basically, per every point in STR your pikeman gains less damage, than your bloodknight.
Not only that, though. Anarmored melee gain offensive skills, while armored gain defensive class skills. That leads to a very unpleasant situation when your armored units will lag behind your dedicated killers in exp bacause they cannot lashit anything. Last battle my footman gained like 140 exp and my sniper with ranged support gained almost 400 exp. This makes your melee frontline units very hard to level up.