Shipyards?

[=7CAV=SPC.Henson.K]

Should I build them in orbit over Luna or Mars? What are the key components of getting my first ship built?

[gimmethegepgun]

You shouldn't build shipyards over Luna, ever.
You should have shipyards around every other major body you inhabit, including Earth, because your defensive ships should be built in orbit around that body and never go anywhere else.

[corisai]

Yes, you would definitely need shipyards in orbit of Earth/Luna (as Earth would be attacked MUCH more often - usually players prefer shipyards over Earth) and Mars.

What is the role of your first ship? Colony ship? Space Science Lab? Intercepting enemy Surveillance mission (aka killing your first alien ship)? Defending your assets against aliens? Attacking alien bases & colony ships in Main Belt? Marines for assaulting enemy bases?

All those examples are ships I'm building myself in early game (up to 2027~).

[Blaarg]

You'll want shipyards in the orbits you are defending. Typically, this means LEO, the mars interface orbit & the mercury interface orbit (once you expand to mercury). If you claimed all 4 sites on Ceres, maybe there too.

You'll need to have your mines producing an income on all space resources before trying to build your first ship. Trying to pay for components of a ship with boost just slows down your ability to put up your first mines.

For your first ships, you'll want a weapon of some sort, usually missiles/torpedoes. If you are playing on 0.4.47 or later (currently validation or experimental), I'm a fan of missiles (Viper is ideal, Riverjack or Copperhead is ok). For older patchs, athena torpedoes can work well.

You'll want a targeting computer on the ship. Missile ships also like magazines.

The drive/reactor can be whatever form of solid/molten/gas core fission you have at the time. Same thing with radiator/batteries.

As a defensive combat ship, it will not be leaving the orbit it started in. As such, 5 to 7 kps deltaV is enough.

Some nose armor is good, but don't bother with side armor at this point. 4 points is enough to tank 256 orange cannons down to 600km.

If you have any of the following, you'll probably want a heat sink of some sort in a utility slot
Laser point defense or ion point defense
Any damage dealing laser
Any railgun or coilgun

[corisai]

Originally posted by Blaarg:

If you are playing on 0.4.47 or later (currently validation or experimental), I'm a fan of missiles (Viper is ideal, Riverjack or Copperhead is ok).

Artemis is still rock-solid. And shaped nukes are near OP.

Originally posted by Blaarg:

Same thing with radiator/batteries.

No, radiator should be at least Cobalt Dust (read: any radiator with Low or even better Very Low combat durability) or you may not bother with armoring at all.

Originally posted by Blaarg:

4 points is enough to tank 256 orange cannons down to 600km.

Well, my campaign had started on 0.4.51. Since it I'd met a single (ONE) alien ship armed with 256 Orange. While 7 types armed with 256 Violet and 10 types armed with 512+ Violet.

But of course early it isn't going that you can afford a lot of armor.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Blaarg:

If you have any of the following, you'll probably want a heat sink of some sort in a utility slot
Laser point defense or ion point defense
Any damage dealing laser
Any railgun or coilgun

Actually no. You want heat sink for a ship that will undergoing a prolonged beating.

Ships you're placing into center of formation? Sure, eventually they will like it.

Attacking fleet? Definitely.

Laser Lancers that placed at flanks to deal with flankers? Actually could make with just a Tin Droplet / Lithium Spray (especially if you're accelerating your central "tanks" just a bit to make sure they will get the most of attention).

[Blaarg]

To clarify for the op, if a ship without a heat sink takes a hit to the radiators & uses a weapon that produces heat, it is effectively combat neutralized.

For early game combat, you won't have expensive research into 'very low vulnerability' radiators that reduce the chance of being hit in the radiator down to 1% per incoming shot. As such, for ships with heat producing weapons, unless you want it going down from being plinked by a 64 cm laser, put on a heat sink and hit the 'retract radiators' button. Early combat will not last long enough to fill up the heat sink.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Blaarg:

To clarify for the op, if a ship without a heat sink takes a hit to the radiators

And chance for radiators to be hit is static (regardless of ship actual position). For "Very Low" combat vulnerability it's 1%.

Originally posted by Blaarg:

For early game combat, you won't have expensive research into 'very low vulnerability' radiators

Cobalt Dust are 5k RP, not very expensive.

Originally posted by Blaarg:

Early combat will not last long enough to fill up the heat sink.

In early combat you simply can't afford a Heatsink, they're way too heavy while you still don't have enough armor for gaining anything from a Heatsink.

Just a personal experience: I used PD Escorts with 10+ nose armor to tank enemy fire while my missiles are doing the job since ~27 and until ~32. No one of them had died due to radiators hit.

[Pawleus]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

You shouldn't build shipyards over Luna, ever.

I strongly disagree with it. Luna and its orbits can currently become a major easily defendable research and financial center so yes, you should build shipyards over Luna, always. Additionally, Luna and Earth fleets can easily support each other even in the early game so they can be smaller and thanks to it you have 2 close major research and financial centers capable of supporting each other that can be easily defended.

Originally posted by =7CAV=SPC.Henson.K:

What are the key components of getting my first ship built?

Why do you ask basically the same question in the third thread when you were answered in the previous two? Are you even reading answers or bother to click a provided link?

[=7CAV=SPC.Henson.K]

I'm getting a lot of feedback here and am copying and pasting into a file for reference. There are a lot of knowledgeable and experienced players, often with differing opinions so it's taking time to sort through them and verifying them in game. Keep the suggestions coming though, I appreciate all of it.

[Captiva]

Not an expert by any stretch.

I usually go Earth L1 or L2, Venus or Mercury or both maybe. Sometimes I do Mars too for fun. The main goal is to be able to build a fleet in a reasonable amount of time where it is needed. Some large ships take a very long time.

Also depending on drive tech, like others mentioned, you might want a shipyard where ever you want a defensive fleet.

Another option is to build resupply bases for your fleets to travel to and hang out at in areas you want to defend if you do not want a shipyard.

So in past I have built a main shipyard on Earth and Mercury and then put resupply bases on Mars and Venus so I could station a fleet there but not have to pay the upkeep costs for another shipyard.

Of course Jupiter makes a good spot for another one once you can defend the station later in the game.

[Pawleus]

Originally posted by Captiva:

Another option is to build resupply bases for your fleets to travel to and hang out at in areas you want to defend if you do not want a shipyard.

So in past I have built a main shipyard on Earth and Mercury and then put resupply bases on Mars and Venus so I could station a fleet there but not have to pay the upkeep costs for another shipyard.

What do you mean by "resupply bases"? I hope they are not just habs with Supply Depots - it's one of 2 hab modules (Battlestation is another one) I can't find usage for in the current TI, at all.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Pawleus:

I hope they are not just habs with Supply Depots - it's one of 2 hab modules (Battlestation is another one) I can't find usage for in the current TI, at all.

Ironic that I do use Supply Deports relatively a lot: Ceres & asteroid bases (in case asteroid spawned with god-tier resources I need desperately, usually nobles but sometimes a fissiles); Jupiter main base & it's minor satelites excluding Callisto (so even early defense fleets could reliably cover them).

With yet another (c) Campus nerf - I no longer feeling that slots on my minor bases are THAT competitive (c'mon Supply module is pretty good when compared with something like 12 RP), and I prefer to keep my shipyards concentrated mostly to avoid mistakes like ordering a part of new fleet on wrong shipyard.

[Adanu]

I only put shipyards on planets that I plan to actively stage from or need active fleets later on, which means Earth and Mars initially. Once you get the good planetary defenses to fend off raiding. You don't need planetary fleets around every planet, no matter what anyone tells you. Pulling raiding parties away from other fleets is always a good thing, Makes them waste the resources.

Putting a shipyard at Luna is basically pointless. Earth is where you want to stage, if only so you don't need to move your fleets there everytime the aliens decide to try to move in.

[ferver]

I really need to do more research instead of just willy nilly trying to play the game XD very insightful stuff here guys ty

[Pawleus]

Originally posted by corisai:

Ironic that I do use Supply Deports relatively a lot: Ceres & asteroid bases

Nice to know that somebody finds them useful - how do you cope without having at least one Spacedock even at such relatively large bodies as Ceres? I would say it's a huge mistake in the early/mid game but perhaps I can't see something.

Originally posted by Adanu:

You don't need planetary fleets around every planet, no matter what anyone tells you.
[...]
Putting a shipyard at Luna is basically pointless.

If you do the "turtle" strategy and delay fighting until the late-game (which makes your campaign sooo much protracted) then perhaps it's true - if you fight early and try to expand as fast as possible it's certainly false because you don't have tech to be at your distant possessions before the Aliens when they decide it's time to attack them and fleets are by far the best way to defend them at any stage of the game.

Luna research/financial sphere is worth building and defending - LEO+Earth alone is not enough to develop fast and habs around Luna are more concentrated in space than habs outside Earth Intermediate Orbit so they are easier to defend with small low-tech fleets stationing in the vicinity.