Switzerland in EU?

[Frodo]

Can I get Switzerland into EU. Can I get claim on them with some tech? Its the only country in europe I have not unified into EU, coz I have no claim on region.

[corisai]

It even more funny to see them without EU claim once you will remember that with recent events Switzerland broke their neutral status and now fully assotiate themselves with EU at least for external politics.

[debott]

Wait, EU does not have a claim on switzerland in the game? That would be odd indeed.

Is there something in Swiss constitution that might prevent it in any way? Neutrality might only be one aspect.

[Ericus1]

Yes, once you research the Great Europe tech for the EU, it adds a claim onto Switzerland.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Yes, once you research the Greater Europe tech for the EU, it adds a claim onto Switzerland.

This utterly stupid to see that from devs viewpoint - Belarus is more likely to became EU member (locked behind Europe Ascendant, first tier of mega-EU) then Switzerland (locked behind Greater Nation global tech & Great Europa, second tier of mega-EU).

[debott]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Ericus1:

Yes, once you research the Greater Europe tech for the EU, it adds a claim onto Switzerland.

This utterly stupid to see that from devs viewpoint - Belarus is more likely to became EU member (locked behind Europe Ascendant, first tier of mega-EU) then Switzerland (locked behind Greater Nation global tech & Great Europa, second tier of mega-EU).

There is nothing stupid about it. Please refrain from using such hard words on what is a) only a game and b) highly speculative politics at best.
I'm sure the devs have their reasons. Let's talk about it, shall we?

IRL, Switzerland has very good reasons not to become a member of the EU any time soon, mostly in terms of wealth/standard of living, but also in terms of security (the bear in the room being Russia, obvs).
In comparison, Belarussians (as well as Ukrainians and the Baltics) are in the uncomfortable position, that neutrality is sadly off the table. Just as with Ukraine, I find it easy to imagine Belarussian EU membership talks to begin quickly, once Lukashenko is gone and a pro-European government is in power. (I.e., Belarus has the additional hurdle to first leave EAU before joining EU, in-game)
The Swiss are more confident and comfortable with the status quo and have only little to gain from a EU membership (let alone be part of a EU mega-nation).

I think the core problem at play here is that we can't throw a bunch of sovereign nations into one bucket in terms of their geo-political relationship towards any other nation or collective thereof. The Great Nation projects are exactly that, however: a gross simplification of reality (as is the entire game, of course).
Could we rebalance it? Sure. But I find Europe Ascendant is fine until we get a proper claim mechanic that is not tied to research. After all, even Türkiye is in membership talks today, while Switzerland is not.

[debott]

Originally posted by debott:

The Great Nation projects are exactly that, however: a gross simplification of reality (as is the entire game, of course).
I find Europe Ascendant is fine until we get a proper claim mechanic that is not tied to research.

To elaborate some more on this: I think there have been suggestions that, instead of research, claims might become part of the Investment point mechanic of individual nations. I can imagine that a "claim IP" could receive modifiers based on the size of the claimed nation/regions, unrest, per capita GDP, distance between capital regions, as well es hard coded modifiers, etc.

[corisai]

Originally posted by debott:

b) highly speculative politics at best.

That's why I'm speaking from pure gameplay viewpoint.

Currently gameplay saying that Switzerland joining the EU would require ~same amount of political influence to make Russia doing the same. You can't be serious to defend that type of non-sense.

Originally posted by debott:

IRL, Switzerland has very good reasons not to become a member of the EU any time soon, mostly in terms of wealth/standard of living, but also in terms of security (the bear in the room being Russia, obvs).

You can't be serious here, x2. Neither Switzerland had any prolonged hostilities with Russia in past, not Russia having a manpower to occupy whole EU to make minor countries feeling insecure.

Wealth/standart of living are also not counted as an issue here due to ability to join Turkey and Belarus after completing just a Europe Ascendant.

You also missing the fact that Switzerland already integrated a lot into EU economics, while for example both Belarus and Armenia are not.

Originally posted by debott:

I think the core problem at play here

Is a huge hole in united EU after completing a first tier of unification. Imagine - being unable to join Quebec into Greater North America just ... because it "having french as official language"?

It would be simply stupid - zero actual effect on game balance, just a source of annoyance for "map painter" type of players.

[debott]

Sorry, while writing I mistook Europe Ascendant with Great Europa. That's my bad.
To be clear, As long as we have to make due with the tech projects that we have right now, I think Switzerland should be in Europe Ascendant, same as Turkey.
It should obviously be claimed before Great Europa. We agree on this, yes? :)
Where would you like to have Sitzerland put into? Natural claim, EU Ascendant or Great EU?

I'm not sure if I understand everything you wrote correctly:

Originally posted by corisai:

Neither Switzerland had any prolonged hostilities with Russia in past, not Russia having a manpower to occupy whole EU to make minor countries feeling insecure.

That is exactly my point: Switzerland by itself has little to fear from Russia. Meanwhile eastern European nations can feel much more secure as part of the EU.[/quote]

Originally posted by corisai:

Wealth/standart of living are also not counted as an issue here due to ability to join Turkey and Belarus after completing just a Europe Ascendant.

Also exactly my point: Belarus and Türkiye would be net receivers of EU subsidies. Switzerland would be a net payer, and a big one, too, I imagine.

Originally posted by corisai:

You also missing the fact that Switzerland already integrated a lot into EU economics, while for example both Belarus and Armenia are not.

Again my point: Switzerland is comfortable with a neutral/friendly bilateral EU relationship. Easterns countries don't have that luxury, because little green men might come and occupy them. So once stepping one toe inside the door, they are highly incentivized to go all the way quickly.

[corisai]

Originally posted by debott:

To be clear, As long as we have to make due with the tech projects that we have right now, I think Switzerland should be in Europe Ascendant, same as Turkey.
It should obviously be claimed before Great Europa. We agree on this, yes? :)

Yes, we're absolutely agree on this. IMHO Switzerland should be locked by first tier of EU mega-unification - Europe Ascendant (together with Armenia, Belarus and Turkey) if we're going for hardcore realism.

[perl]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by debott:

To be clear, As long as we have to make due with the tech projects that we have right now, I think Switzerland should be in Europe Ascendant, same as Turkey.
It should obviously be claimed before Great Europa. We agree on this, yes? :)

Yes, we're absolutely agree on this. IMHO Switzerland should be locked by first tier of EU mega-unification - Europe Ascendant (together with Armenia, Belarus and Turkey) if we're going for hardcore realism.

That would be a good change