Is it worth building a Space Dock in LEO just to launch probes?

[Elegant Caveman]

Bit of context:

First game, Resistance (tutorial), Normal difficulty. 16 April 2023. USA & Kazakhstan (but still federated, so not getting much boost from them yet), foothold in New Zealand, where I've just started producing boost. Also got lucky with an org that gives me 1.25/month.

Been save scumming a fair bit, so I think I'm in a pretty good position for where I'm at?

Working on Advanced Chemical Rocketry, not ready to send probes anywhere yet, but trying to think ahead.

Noticed the description for Space Dock mentions it can be used to send probes: does this matter, for Earth?

I've got 2 habs in LEO 1. One with 3 Social Science Labs (for +3 to Public Campaign), but don't have any specific plans for the second yet (it's just got a Solar Collector building).

Wondering if it's worth putting a Space Dock there (if I did, I'd probably add another Solar Collector and an Energy Science Lab).

Alternatives would be Energy Labs or Xenology Labs.

Right now, I've got 1 boost and a monthly income of 3. I wasn't planning any other major expansions into space, wanting to save up for the Moon/Mars instead (I might grab another hab in LEO 2 just to reserve myself a spot, but everything's empty right now, so I'm not in a rush).

If I can trust the Resources tab in in faction Intel (how do I know what everybody's resources are so easily?), Humanity First has the same daily boost income I do (they hold Russia, so they're getting most of what my Kazakhstan is producing... for now), and the Servants have a bit more than half (they've got most of India). Academy's about a quarter (Japan + bits & pieces elsewhere), the others have less.

[gimmethegepgun]

The ability to launch probes from Space Docks (and its upgrades) means that you can turn space resources into probes instead of using Boost from Earth. Since it sounds like you don't have any space resources yet, there's no point.

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af gimmethegepgun:

The ability to launch probes from Space Docks (and its upgrades) means that you can turn space resources into probes instead of using Boost from Earth. Since it sounds like you don't have any space resources yet, there's no point.

Excellent, thanks.

So, something to keep in mind for later, but not yet useful.

Maybe once I get a foothold on the Moon, before I head out to Mars?

Any experience with this? Would it make a noticeable difference, or is this more useful later on (like sending a probe to the outers from an asteroid/Mars instead of Earth, for example)?

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

You won't see much of a speed increase from probes launched from earth orbit vs earth itself, but you can shave a fair amount of days/weeks or even months/years from having closer launchpoints. A dock around Mars will be beneficial for probing the belt, as will a dock at the L3 Lagrange points of any planet.

You will want a dock at every major body you want to keep hold of anyway for local shipbuilding.

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

You won't see much of a speed increase from probes launched from earth orbit vs earth itself, but you can shave a fair amount of days/weeks or even months/years from having closer launchpoints. A dock around Mars will be beneficial for probing the belt, as will a dock at the L3 Lagrange points of any planet.

You will want a dock at every major body you want to keep hold of anyway for local shipbuilding.

Thanks.

[Patrus]

Also keep in mind, that placing docks on outer planets doesn't really guarantee, that you will reduce probing time of other outer planets.
Let's say, you build a shipyard on Ceres. Intuitively you may think, that if you want to probe Jupiter, it will be faster if you launch probe from Ceres, than from Earth, because on the map it is "closer" to Jupiter. That's not always the case, however. It depends on the current relative positions of those planets. If they are currently misaligned, it is likely, that it will be actually faster to launch probe from Earth.
The game takes it into account and launches probes from the most "optimal" dock.
So, constructing docks on other planets gives you a chance of decreasing probing time, but it doesn't guarantee it - that depends on the exact time, when you want to launch the probe.

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Patrus:

The game takes it into account and launches probes from the most "optimal" dock.
So, constructing docks on other planets gives you a chance of decreasing probing time, but it doesn't guarantee it - that depends on the exact time, when you want to launch the probe.

Yeah, it's a big solar system out there... lol

Noticed the Transfer Planner tab under Intel and figured I was gonna have to take a deeper look at that once I left Earth.

[gimmethegepgun]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elegant Caveman:

Noticed the Transfer Planner tab under Intel and figured I was gonna have to take a deeper look at that once I left Earth.

You figured correctly.

[Pawleus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elegant Caveman:

Noticed the Transfer Planner tab under Intel and figured I was gonna have to take a deeper look at that once I left Earth.

Yes, just don't expect too much out of it - it has severe limitations so you can only plan with it transfers that are starting at the moment of using it. Thus you can't eg.:
- plan a transfer for the future when you expect planets will be aligned better
- find a moment in the future when a transfer will be fastest
This is bad because eg. in case of Saturn transfer times might be as different as less than 40 and more then 90 weeks with some drives.

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Pawleus:

Yes, just don't expect too much out of it - it has severe limitations so you can only plan with it transfers that are starting at the moment of using it. Thus you can't eg.:
- plan a transfer for the future when you expect planets will be aligned better
- find a moment in the future when a transfer will be fastest
This is bad because eg. in case of Saturn transfer times might be as different as less than 40 and more then 90 weeks with some drives.

How am I supposed to figure out the best time to send stuff, then? Just guess/hope?

Like, say I'm ready on day X to send something somewhere... how can I tell if I should just send it, or wait?

Or am I just always basically better off sending when I'm ready?

[Pawleus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elegant Caveman:

How am I supposed to figure out the best time to send stuff, then? Just guess/hope?

When you set up an actual transfer there is a less limited way of planning it but if you want to plan some months ahead the only way, currently, is to look at the Solar System and predict the right moment by guessimating (I feature-requested changes to the Transfer Planner quite a while ago so perhaps they will be implemented in the future).

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Pawleus:

When you set up an actual transfer there is a less limited way of planning it but if you want to plan some months ahead the only way, currently, is to look at the Solar System and predict the right moment by guessimating (I feature-requested changes to the Transfer Planner quite a while ago so perhaps they will be implemented in the future).

Ah, so when you're actually trying to send something, you can have a clearer idea?

That's not too bad, then.

But yeah, I agree, it could be useful to be able to plan ahead.

[Pawleus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elegant Caveman:

Ah, so when you're actually trying to send something, you can have a clearer idea?

Yes, you can even see then how a trajectory looks like.

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Pawleus:

Yes, you can even see then how a trajectory looks like.

Good to hear, thanks.

[Ericus1]

Honestly, probes fall into 1 or two categories: those you will send ASAP early game to find and lock down the best sites on the major system bodies, like Luna or Mars, and the rest. Building a dock is important, but not for either of those purposes. The probes you want to get out there ASAP won't cost you enough boost to matter nor will you really have a way to shorten the time, and for the rest even if they take 2 or 3 years to get there it doesn't really matter because you aren't likely to be heading to those spots any time soon anyways and it's not like you'll have to compete with the AI for asteroids.

And the ironic things about boost vs. space resources for probe costs is that when boost is limited and you'd want to use space resources you probably won't have a space economy yet, but by the time you have a space economy you'll likely have nothing better to do with your excess boost anyways other than put it into hospitals.

[Elegant Caveman]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ericus1:

Honestly, probes fall into 1 or two categories: those you will send ASAP early game to find and lock down the best sites on the major system bodies, like Luna or Mars, and the rest. Building a dock is important, but not for either of those purposes. The probes you want to get out there ASAP won't cost you enough boost to matter nor will you really have a way to shorten the time, and for the rest even if they take 2 or 3 years to get there it doesn't really matter because you aren't likely to be heading to those spots any time soon anyways and it's not like you'll have to compete with the AI for asteroids.

And the ironic things about boost vs. space resources for probe costs is that when boost is limited and you'd want to use space resources you probably won't have a space economy yet, but by the time you have a space economy you'll likely have nothing better to do with your excess boost anyways other than put it into hospitals.

Yeah, I was specifically asking for that early Luna/Mars space rush.

Given the description, I was wondering if it was worth building one in LEO just to send probes from, for the sake of getting to Luna or Mars faster, and seems the answer there is "no".