China Or the Republic of China?

[BrowneHawk]

Been playing with China a bit and wondering what the best move for it is.

If you Use Taiwan get the liberating mainland tech you get the majority of China minus 2 western regions. You mainly get to keep Taiwans Democracy score and militech inequality drops a bit as well. So you get a Democratic China out of the deal without waiting years to raise it with knowledge.

I have seen mixed post, some say this locks you out of doing the Pan Asian Combine. Although saw someone say you can still make it. So are you better off, making Republic of China, leaving it as is,then moving onto different unifying project? Or is it better to keep China, just unify Taiwan, then go onto make the Combine? The first option is about 20k RP, the 2nd option requires (great Nations) 25k rp and then the (Pan Asian COmbine) 50k RP 75k Rp total.

[Blaze Shadowflame]

Before the last patch, you needed to directly control the CP for the country involved in the unity projects for them to appear. Meaning, if you completely dissolved China while forming the Republic of China by granting independence to those 2 western regions beforehand the Pan-Asian Combine project would never appear unless you granted China independence again. This is no longer the case, so if you want to form the Republic of China until you are able to research the Combine go right ahead.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Blaze Shadowflame:

Before the last patch, you needed to directly control the CP for the country involved in the unity projects for them to appear. Meaning, if you completely dissolved China while forming the Republic of China by granting independence to those 2 western regions beforehand the Pan-Asian Combine project would never appear unless you granted China independence again. This is no longer the case, so if you want to form the Republic of China until you are able to research the Combine go right ahead.

But the PAC gives the claims to the PRC, not Taiwan, so a China under Taiwan can't use them unless they release the PRC.

For OP, I have one other consideration to add: the capitol of ROC is Taipei. Which is functionally impossible to use your armies to defend against the AA if they aren't blockaded (because if they aren't blockaded, you are). You could get around this if you get the PDL since you could cede it to Japan, but otherwise it's a lot more vulnerable.

[BrowneHawk]

Ok so I think I get it now after watching a video and reading the tech tree a bit. The liberating mainland china with Taiwan, is the starting step to an over all larger nation.

I spent way to much time thinking on this, but I guess what to do with it comes down to what your goals and status are in your own game. I do feel even if you don't plan on making a mega nation out of Asia, making the Republic is still better than keeping it China. You get to make a stronger China for only 20krp

After looking at the difference in numbers, just peacefully unifying Taiwan into China is almost a waste, like a drop in the bucket. Going RoC route makes it go from 1.8gov to a 9.3. I have had China in past games and it takes years to even get close to that democracy. You also still retain the option to use western China to still make the Pan Asian Combine later on if you wish it. Which I may do that, also get Pacific Defense but leave them apart. A high militech Japan merging with Roc sounds nice.

I wish Pan Asian Combine wasn't a pre req for the PDL. Would be nice to just cut CHina out of the mix and go right to the PDL.

[AzzA]

What I did -100% tested works: (after already owning USA & Euro/Russia)
Note that you need to work with CP, going over will have opponents wrecking speed of goal
1. Take thailand and research South Asian alliance (very very cheap 5K), unite all asian countires it can below China.
2. Take 2 control point (inc executive) from china - research PanAsian Combine and unite the Siberian countries (nations between them and russia) except tibet because was too hard and not worth (can do it if your perfectionist)
3. Take all Taiwan points and then concede all territory from China except Beijing and Siberian etc creating Republic of China. yahyah
4. Unite Korea (hopefully north and south already been done by someone) with China, then Japan and lastly - make sure you get unity as high as possible (over 3) first because uniting other Unions with low will make some countries drop out...save scum if you want to cut it close/quicken - unite the South Asian alliance (important 3+ unity req) to China too.
5. make sure get unity high again (3.5-4+) and unite China into Republic of China
Now you have massive Republic of China (democracy with aprx 31+bn gdp) from Japan to Indonesia.
god savescum luck

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by BrowneHawk:

A high militech Japan merging with Roc sounds nice.

It's really not. Peaceful Unification causes the miltech of both nations to be averaged based on their number of regions. China has a lot more regions than Japan, so their high miltech will largely be wasted.
Unless by merging you mean invading Taipei and thus conquering all of China and replacing their miltech with Japan's.

Originally posted by AzzA:

4. Unite Korea (hopefully north and south already been done by someone)

You can unite them within 3 months of the game starting. Just take NK's single CP, disarm the nuke, and declare war on SK. Then just wait for big daddy USA to solve that problem forever. And you even get to keep SK's miltech score!

[Corusca Fire]

Strategy I’ve done successfully

1) get PRC and ROC

2) once you’ve done liberating the mainland, either get PRC into ROC militarily (I used some US divisions to help with this) or possibly unite PRC into ROC, then release PRC from ROC, then cede back to ROC. Either strategy should result in large, high democracy ROC and a rump PRC with just a couple of regions. I prefer the first strategy as the second strategy will leave Beijing in the PRC.

3) make your big Southeast Asia. I usually make Greater Austronesia (Indonesia great nation), then unify it into Malaysia. This puts all of the pacific islands (except Hawaii) plus Australia (is Australia an Island?) in one mega-state with capital at Kuala Lumpur

4) research pan-Asian combine and unify this mega-state into the rump PRC.

5) add other nations to the pan-Asian combine at your leisure (Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc)

6) once you have them all, cede territory from ROC to the pan-Asian combine. This will give all of mainland China back to it, and leave ROC with just Taiwan - crucially, it will move Pan Asia’s capital back to Beijing, which ROC has a claim on. Then you can unify Pan-Asia back into ROC and bam - you have a mega-nation with like 2.5 billion or more people and 10 democracy score. All of China, East and Southeast Asia, and all of the Pacific in one 10 demo score country

The reason for this somewhat convoluted order is to get a large high democracy country ASAP before you build the rest of pan-Asia. With this strategy, you can get a ~1+ billion ROC in your pocket while you build pan-Asia, instead of being stuck with ♥♥♥♥ research until you finish pan-Asia

[BrowneHawk]

Originally posted by Corusca Fire:

Strategy I’ve done successfully

1) get PRC and ROC

2) once you’ve done liberating the mainland, either get PRC into ROC militarily (I used some US divisions to help with this) or possibly unite PRC into ROC, then release PRC from ROC, then cede back to ROC. Either strategy should result in large, high democracy ROC and a rump PRC with just a couple of regions. I prefer the first strategy as the second strategy will leave Beijing in the PRC.

3) make your big Southeast Asia. I usually make Greater Austronesia (Indonesia great nation), then unify it into Malaysia. This puts all of the pacific islands (except Hawaii) plus Australia (is Australia an Island?) in one mega-state with capital at Kuala Lumpur

4) research pan-Asian combine and unify this mega-state into the rump PRC.

5) add other nations to the pan-Asian combine at your leisure (Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc)

6) once you have them all, cede territory from ROC to the pan-Asian combine. This will give all of mainland China back to it, and leave ROC with just Taiwan - crucially, it will move Pan Asia’s capital back to Beijing, which ROC has a claim on. Then you can unify Pan-Asia back into ROC and bam - you have a mega-nation with like 2.5 billion or more people and 10 democracy score. All of China, East and Southeast Asia, and all of the Pacific in one 10 demo score country

The reason for this somewhat convoluted order is to get a large high democracy country ASAP before you build the rest of pan-Asia. With this strategy, you can get a ~1+ billion ROC in your pocket while you build pan-Asia, instead of being stuck with ♥♥♥♥ research until you finish pan-Asia

I'm doing pretty well on research atm, think I might give that a go, will be tough because I'm also hoarding USA, and not really interested in giving it up, so will have to ride over the line to try this.

[Corusca Fire]

I was fortunate in that I was splitting USA with HF which was fine by me, so I didn’t have to spend the CP to hoard all of the USA until later

[BrowneHawk]

Originally posted by Corusca Fire:

I was fortunate in that I was splitting USA with HF which was fine by me, so I didn’t have to spend the CP to hoard all of the USA until later

Well I'm not gonna be too upset about having USA and its militech 6 invasion armies, I'll just be getting the mega nation done a bit later.