Effective Weapons Loadout

[Cicero]

Post-patch the aliens are much more effective in combat against stations and fleets. Any recommendations on how to win against alien fleets once you approach the late game? I'm using Mk3 coil cannons and ultra violet phasers on battleships and just getting mauled by the aliens

[AylaSelene]

You now want a few siege coilers to kill heavy chonkers that do not dodge, and 960cm UV Phaser to kill everything that does dodge, and show you their sides.
Sides either full 60cm IR phaser for PD or some coil to distract and maybe occasionally kill flankers.
Plasma batteries are now best to not research in the first place because they replace the mildly useful coils on your station defense modules with the now entirely useless plasma turrets.

[corisai]

960cm Phasers mixed with HCB (heavy coil battery) on titans working the best for me.

Enemy either trying to dodge coils and instantly vaporized by phasers or tanking phasers with frontal armor and die from coils.

[Cicero]

What kind and amount of armor are you using?

[Ericus1]

Adamantine is the superior armor, hands down. The two that use exotics consume prohibitive amounts of exotics and so are worthless. Adamantine is the lightest, best armor we have.

And for late game big ship fleets you're looking at something like 40/20/200. Maybe a bit less on the body, maybe a bit more on the nose, but somewhere in that range.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Cicero:

What kind and amount of armor are you using?

8/8/120 is working fine for me as I'm controlling my ships is battle (very few actual maneuvers but I'm picking initial combat speed & follow my own list of priority targets instead of relying on AI).

Flankers are not THAT scary for 960cm & HCB combo as long as you're keep eye on what's going in battle.

Having more rear armor then you're having on sides is ... well, useless?

[corisai]

Actual breakpoint values for minimal value of armor:

5. Fully tanking 256cm violet laser at max range.
10. Fully tanking 512cm violet laser at max range.
15. Fully tanking 256cm X-ray laser at max range.
17. Fully tanking 768cm violet laser at max range.

57. Fully tanking 1024 X-ray laser at max range.
77. Fully tanking 1024 gamma laser at max range.

So - sides armoring ideally to be around 15 and absolutely need to be at least 5 (for end-game ships obviously).
Minimum for nose armor is ~60, better ~80.

[Cicero]

Also, anyone have any advice on the new particle weapons?

[Pawleus]

Originally posted by corisai:

Having more rear armor then you're having on sides is ... well, useless?

In this case, probably. It's certainly not useless in the maneuvering combat using missiles (actually the tail is the new front, then ;) ) but IIRC you know it. It might also be useful generally in the maneuvering combat as to protect your drive longer.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Pawleus:

In this case, probably. It's certainly not useless in the maneuvering combat using missiles (actually the tail is the new front, then ;) ) but IIRC you know it.

True, but I found it to be way less efficient tactics in 0.4.x. Previously we used it to counter enemy mag shots (especially on non-mobile Grid ships), but now AI is obsessed with dodge and because of that rarely (if ever) fire spinal mags on our missile boats. So basically main threat is their lasers and cheaty plasma (that NOT get it range nerfed, lol) - and that's favor super high nose armor.

Originally posted by Pawleus:

It might also be useful generally in the maneuvering combat as to protect your drive longer.

True, but again - 960cm Phaser UV & HCB combo is working so great that I don't encounter anything but short burst of flanking fire. All you need is to learn to prioritizeyour targets. As examples (UPD: obviously they're mostly not for you but for OP & other players):
1) there is a little reason to fire at ayy ship with 70+ front armor approaching on you at max range when you have other targets nearby. Either pick other target or run a single round of coilgun shots on that behemoth & switch target in hope for triggering a dodge attempt.

2) among all incoming targets pick most dangerous first - T3 heavy mags (if your PD is already busy), heaviest lasers and plasma AND fast agile ships attempting to flank you.

3) if enemy is already crippled (like red damage indication on front = it can't use nose cannon) - search for better target. Finishing is not a high priority for lategame combat (plus coils usually finish those wrecks on their own).

P.S. Probably I'm playing Initiative too much recently as always considering cost of my ships.

[Pawleus]

Originally posted by corisai:

So basically main threat is their lasers and cheaty plasma (that NOT get it range nerfed, lol) - and that's favor super high nose armor.

Showing your tail to the enemy and accelerating away after missiles are launched (especially effective for non-torpedoes) also protects you to some degree from lasers and plasma - this is why your more armored drive will last longer and should allow you to escape their range even if damaged or just stay at long enough range until the enemy is destroyed.

Originally posted by corisai:

Probably I'm playing Initiative too much recently as always considering cost of my ships.

But your big ships with the Phaser+Coils combo must be terribly expensive in comparison to a wall of highly maneuverable small ships of the Coil Cannon+60cm Phaser combo, supplemented by the Coil Cannon+nuclear torpedo combo. OK, I admit I am yet to see it in 0.4 so I might be mistaken.

BTW, why do you use the combo - I would expect that a mix of specialized ships (pure laser and pure coils) work much better.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Pawleus:

BTW, why do you use the combo - I would expect that a mix of specialized ships (pure laser and pure coils) work much better.

0.4.x ayys get a massive buff to armor and weapons - something like 15/10/70 is pretty common to see, while gunships with 256cm X-ray lasers are pretty deadly flankers. On top of it devs introduced overpenetration mechanics so non-explosive hits could not deal their full damage to ship internals.

Thanks to this changes 360cm lasers are basically a garbage. Pure coils are still work (when mixed with few heavy siege coils) but suffer a lot from alien T3 weapon, as both X-ray/gamma lasers and T3 mag cannons are very deadly, while coilguns in generic usage (high wall and slow approach) are lacking range.

While HCB (heavy coil battery) combo instead with 720cm phasers insanely well:
a) Everything that trying to flank you is dead/crippled instantly by phasers
b) Everything that trying to charge you head-on relying on heavy armor have a nasty choice: try to dodge projectiles (and die by phasers) or keep going (and eventually get one-shoted by coils).

On top of it HCB helping with aliens battlestations as keep their lasers busy instead of firing into your ships.

[Pawleus]

I see I wasn't clear enough: why do you use the combo on the same ship? A mix of specialized ships should work much better - in case of lasers you might give them a lot of laser engines so that not just your main cannon is effective, in case of coils you can also use much better coil cannons and give them more batteries to store energy as to feed those power-hungry coil launchers when you maneuver.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Pawleus:

I see I wasn't clear enough: why do you use the combo on the same ship?

I have a mediocre PC so limit on ships in battle is existing for me :) By using a single design I'm 100% sure that have all tools I need to deal with aliens.

Plus coilguns currently don't need utility slots so stack with lasers perfectly.

And I don't have anything else (except 60cm IR Phasers) to put into hull slots of laser warships (while I do want a titan to have most possible amount of laser engines).

Originally posted by Pawleus:

in case of coils you can also use much better coil cannons

Reduced efficiency (at least in few tests I'd run). Lasers are honestly weak weapons (at least human) - their main feature is instant damage so you can kill enemy instantly, without delay and receiving fire from it. To execute it properly you need stack quite a lot of 960cm phasers (as alien ships are unnaturally durable).

[noobermenschen]

Originally posted by Cicero:

Post-patch the aliens are much more effective in combat against stations and fleets. Any recommendations on how to win against alien fleets once you approach the late game? I'm using Mk3 coil cannons and ultra violet phasers on battleships and just getting mauled by the aliens

Once I noticed all those lasers picking apart my ships' side armor I went with more dakka and less point defense on my battleships. Kept the nose coiler and went from coil battery/arc laser battery/two particle PD to two coil battery/one light laser battery/one PD. Later went with heavy coil battery/two light phaser batteries. That seemed to work better though I still took losses, especially if my BBs were outnumbered.

I armor my BBs to 45/1/5. I may take another look at that but side armor is a ♥♥♥♥ ton of weight.

I almost ran myself out of exotics last campaign before I figured out UV phasers were the main culprit. I go with green phasers unless I'm swimming in exotics.

Plasma dreadnoughts with a couple light phaser batteries do an excellent job swatting alien ships out of the sky, but they are quite expensive and too slow to run down enemy fleets late game, especially as I armor them to 120/12/12. With the new aux modules available I may go with plasma titans for orbital busting in the future.

[corisai]

Originally posted by noobermenschen:

I armor my BBs to 45/1/5. I may take another look at that but side armor is a ♥♥♥♥ ton of weight.

45 non-exotic armor would be instantly penentrated by 1024cm X-ray and 768+cm Gamma laser at max range, and by 768cm X-ray lasers around ~850km range.

1 side armor is basically a nothing - would be penetrated by any type of laser at their max range.

Having a 5 tail armor combined with basically no armor at sides is a waste.

Originally posted by noobermenschen:

I go with green phasers unless I'm swimming in exotics.

We're about 0.4.x, right? Green phasers are non-existant in that case - there is absolutely no reason to research them or using them in any situation. You're basically paided 50% of exotics cost for less then 50% of UV Phaser firepower - WHY???

If you're in so dire situation and still want to go lasers (why????) - go for UV Arcs. They loosing rate of fire, yes, but 960cm UV Arc have same penetration as 960cm Green Phaser while costing no exotics at all.

P.S. If you're using exotics on 60cm lasers - you're doing it so horribly wrong. They should be IR Phasers instead (with current armor levels of aliens 60cm Phaser will never be able to penetrate them).

Originally posted by noobermenschen:

Plasma dreadnoughts with a couple light phaser batteries do an excellent job swatting alien ships out of the sky

???? In 0.4.x? O_O

Nah, plasma dreadnoughts are completely dead garbage thanks to 800 km range and negligible damage.