Nukes should be reworked or outright deleted

[Comrade Johnny]

First, Im playing on a rollback version of 3.99, I know, I know but I cant get the current one to work.
Second, nukes should be outright deleted or much, MUCH heavier restricted.
First: The nations that even GET nukes. Nuh uh, shouldnt happen. The one thing I keep noticing is the AI having an obnoxious tendency to spam these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on EVERYTHING. At this point in the campaign even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bangladesh has nukes. BANGLADESH of all things. I can somewhat understand that stuff like japan, germany and spain have nukes, Brazil is already in the wtf but its a big nation its LOOSELY justified area but ffs, THE FIDJI ISLANDS HAVE NUKES NOW. HOW? Small nations shouldnt even HAVE access to nukes at this point.

Next, god the AI uses it in an obnoxious way. So, I do a funny move and invade japan as china. Understandable, they are servant controlled and we all hate the servants and we can make the Pan-Asian combine so we WANT that. Invade army once: Defeat japanese army. Japan decides to suicide nuke itself (Bruh). Predicted that so we move a second army into the region, begin occupation, japan suicide nukes. Again (Bruuuuh, seriously?). Unfortunately the AI is predictable af so I expected that too. Meanwhile cohesion in china is plummetting which I am annoyed by but what gives, war is war, you cant have it all. Move ANOTHER army into japan, suicide nuke again. At this point im pissed so I look how the indian invasion into bangladesh is going: Oh yeah nice we almost hav- suicide nuke. *inhale, exhale* Okay that was a bit annoying, let me just move another one in the- *suicide nuke*
MY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GOD I HAVE HAD IT WITH YOU ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, YOU GET A NUKE, YOU GET A NUKE, LETS NUKE JAPAN A FEW TIMES BACK. And then they launch retaliation nukes which my literally world leading american cannot defend and we lose over 50% of your army cuz... yeah. We have sci-fi weapons but we cant shoot a uranium block with wings out of the sky. Very realistic. Very annoying.

And sadly, there is no mod that allows you to turn off those nukes. And I do not have the CP cap, NOR THE PATIENCE to take over all the quintillion micro-nations nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ about just to slowly emancipate them. Its annoying and it shouldnt be this way. Everything in this game seems to have some sort of gameplay value, everything has something to do, some skill, some interesting mechanic, nukes are just the 0-counterplay "♥♥♥♥-your-fun" mechanic that contributes absolutely nothing to the game and blocks most forms of warfare in general. Lets be real, it is not interesting if a 6.5 miltech USA decides to invade some low-miltech, armyless just because every other nation will kamikaze-nuke itself for as god knows how often.
At least remove kamikaze-nuking.
Or did all that already happen and Im complaining about an old game version?

[EQFL_Sapare]

Making a mod that removes all nukes wouldn't actually be very difficult by my estimation, but does anyone actually want that?

[debott]

引用自 EQFL_Sapare：

Making a mod that removes all nukes wouldn't actually be very difficult by my estimation, but does anyone actually want that?

Without deterrent, this would probably lead to many more wars.

[Premu]

It would make it certainly a lot easier to grab large nations like China...

Just have a bigger, stronger army and take Bejing. Boom, you got all of China without any hassle.

[Hebrux]

you just have to be careful. If an AI nation has a nuke, I don't try to conquer it with my troops otherwise they'll get nuked lol

So I use my councilors to take over control points then I invade when I own all decision making in the country. (sometimes invading is faster than unification through diplomacy)

[POWER WITHIN USER]

Nukes are only really a problem when the AA gets a country with them (purges don't work), your only real alternative is to feed land armies until the country's capital is a barren wasteland or to increase unrest so that a revolution happens.

[Anna]

I think you overestimate nukes a lot, sure suicide bombing civilian populated city Hiroshima-style with modern nukes would cause an outrage, but nuking invading army that is fighting your army in the middle of nowhere with civilians evacuated long time ago, because it's warzone would probably unite a country really. It's a classic example of uniting against much stronger enemy.

USA preemptive strike plans against USSR are unclassified now, you could read and you would be shocked how weak nukes are and how small of an impact they have on the region.

[atomicturist]

Never had problems with nukes. I'm 30years into my fourt campaign and the AI never used nukes. Still, Bangladesh with 10 nukes after a decade of Servants rule was funny :) India tripled it's arsenal after the merge :)

[Akameka]

I think you didn't understand the concept of Nuclear protection.

OF course they would tactical nuke, that's what every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nuclear country in the world would do if they were threatened of losing in their own country. that's the point of nukes : You can't invade me If I have nukes, cause I will just nuke your invading fleets and armies, and can even launch retaliation in your own country ( that's going too far by common standards, but the risk is part of the nuclear threat ). That's litterally part of every nuclear doctrine world wide.

Also, what stops you from developping nukes except for "rules" ? If no-one enforce them (politically or militarily), every country will have one at some point. Cf : North Korea, and soon Iran If we keep doing nothing about it. An dto know someone is trying, you have to watch and spy them. Which is easy to do nowadays, but would be very harder in case a more imminent threat like aliens would manifest.

I agree with this, but I would like to add/concede this: nuclear barrages in TI are more than a single nuke. They are at least dozens of potentially high-yield war heads, plus an un-defined intercontinental delivery system. We are not talking about 'dirty bombs' here.

Nuclear defense bombing isn't nuclear barrage unlike attack on another region. That's actually written in the tooltips (somewhere, I don't remember where exactly) They are tactical nuke with minimal scale that only target the invading armies. They only consume a whole barage because of balance reasons. That's why they hurt the ennemy more than yourself. Basically speaking, yeah, after you've nuked once, there is no reason to not nuke again, as there is nothing there to destroy anymore, except the invading army. You'll just get nuked at the frontier. Minimal damage for me, maximal damage for you.

Also, Low orbit nuclear defenses wouldn't work. That's actually why we don't have a nuclear shield already, despite having measures against ICBMs : Submarines. I just pop out near the coast and nuke you at point blank. Try intercepting that.

In most cases nukes shouldn't be a problem. The AI is very restrained in usage of nukes. They use them only for:
- stopping an army which is close to finish the siege of the nation's capital
- as a retaliation after getting nuked in an offensive way themself.

Yeah and that's kinda generous. Most countries woundn't even wait to be in the losing position. You invade, you get your army immediatly nuked at the frontier, and if you intend to risk nuclear confrontation over it, that's would be on you.
As for an eye for an eye nuclear launch, that's most likelly how would result the usage of an offensive nuke. 1 for each, and we stop there because we have both lost way too much already.

[mk11]

Shadowy behind the scenes organisations are willing to spread nuclear weapon technology to any country they control. New science to ease the separating of fissile material. A demand for tactical nuclear weapons for anti-alien defence. It would be surprising if countries didn't develop nuclear weapons.

The game could have am expensive nuclear program followed by cheaper production of subsequent nukes. It could also have technologies that reduce the costs of program or nukes.

[gimmethegepgun]

引用自 mk11：

The game could have am expensive nuclear program followed by cheaper production of subsequent nukes.

It literally does have that.

[Wilhelm]

引用自 debott：

I can feel your annoyance. But the AI is working exactly as intended. You say you expected them to use their nukes on you, so why the frustration when they actually do so?

I think the lesson here is don't start wars that you cannot finish. Either finish them or try to find another way. :) :tiinitiative:

funny how you talk about arrogance and that is exactly what i get from your take.
(no offense, just tackling your comment and not you)

引用自 Brother Santodes：

Bangladesh will have a nuclear powerplant soon and yes it is build by the russians.
and at that point the rest is not that hard.

the US insane cost of a nuke in 1945 has nothing todo with todays cost.
nukes are very easy to get every country even small ones can do that if they want to.
Israel did it with it's tiny economy south africa did it too.

and uran ore isn't that impossible to get. Bangladesh even has a mine.

can Kiribati build a nuke ahh unlikely can the majority of countries do that easily if they have the will to do so. yes.

you can look up if scientist could build a nuke in a garage i let it up to the reader to believe that or not.

unrealistic. the power blocs of this planet won´t allow everyone having nukes. its easy as that. they can only get them if one powerbloc gifts it to them. This alone has a big 'cooldown' since its triggering big reactions.

[Ericus1]

You do realize "annoyance" and "arrogance" are not the same words, right?

The OP's problem is that they are treating TI like it's an Earth-centric war game like HoI4. They come across as angry that they way they want to play doesn't work, and rather than learn they demand the game be fundamentally changed to accommodate them.

But it's not, never has been, and never will be. Nukes are a big part of that, and if NK has taught us nothing else it's that basic nukes are quite possible to develop in the current day. War is not meant to be the solution or goto step for most problems, and in fact is outright discouraged by the mechanics. As it should be.

[mk11]

引用自 Wilhelm：

unrealistic. the power blocs of this planet won´t allow everyone having nukes. its easy as that. they can only get them if one powerbloc gifts it to them. This alone has a big 'cooldown' since its triggering big reactions.

Which "power blocs" are those? The basic premise of the game is that the power is invested in organisations behind the national powers.

[Wilhelm]

引用自 mk11：

引用自 Wilhelm：

unrealistic. the power blocs of this planet won´t allow everyone having nukes. its easy as that. they can only get them if one powerbloc gifts it to them. This alone has a big 'cooldown' since its triggering big reactions.

Which "power blocs" are those? The basic premise of the game is that the power is invested in organisations behind the national powers.

right. thats why that system needs some rework/additions.
getting nukes should have consequences like IRL. it is a big casus bellus and we should have at least some agency about who gets it and how hard it will be.

here every micro state turbo builds tons of nukes and everyone just shrugs 'whatever'

[Ericus1]

The faction does get an atrocity, which is a global hit to PO. And the more nations you have complete a nuclear program the higher that atrocity count climbs, resulting in larger and larger PO hits. It's not trivial if you are spamming nukes in every minor nation.