Love the game HERE'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT

[Vuyek]

New player here, got to the build the ship section of the game and gave up.

Tech tree. Yep. We all know it.

1) in the descriptions of the techs, what is missing is the EFFECTS of each tech is not written down. WUT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, the lore and paragraphs of it is amazing, but I would like to know what the tech which I commit to research for years-in-game and ten+ minutes in real life actually does?

As an example, how do I as a player, should happen to know that the
Clandestine Cells project

given by tech
We Are Not Alone tech gives


has the CRUCIAL EFFECT of giving me an extra counselor spot?

I am FORCED to use https://rookiv.github.io/terra-invicta/ to look up the game's tech tree,
which I HIGHLY HIGHLY RECOMMEND, to actually understand what each tech does.

Ridiculous.


2) The tech tree is obtuse and unreadable. It is a giant blob of partial information and lore dumps.
It is the most unclear mess I have ever seen in a game or in a work environment.
Anybody who would make a powerpoint presentation like this would be fired on the spot.

It should be split up into sections.

There should be section for engine techs alone. Also, would be great if each engine would clearly state what fuel it requires - some require fuels that the player may not have.

Just for ship techs alone, I believe that the tech tree should be split into techs for engines, batteries, weapons, radiators, what am I missing????? .....I don't know, and I don't want to look it up on the game's tech tree (shudder, no LOL, FR meine duden).


As an ending,
I wonder if there is a single player out there who reads this and actually defends the tech tree and wants to leave it as is?

[RipoffPingu]

i am "that single player" because i personally find the tech tree as being good enough and very much readable - overwhelming at first, sure, but i've gotten used to it and i can read it without difficulty

though i do question what you mean by "partial information and lore dumps", i'm pretty sure i haven't found a single tech that doesn't say exactly what it does (like how clandestine cells explicitly tells the player it gives them +1 councillor slot and i think +25? control points (amount is iffy, i haven't played the game in a while), and how some techs flat out don't do anything (transform phages, IIRC) and act as a bridge between techs - i get all the information i ever need from the tech tree, so i really struggle to see what problem you're having

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Vuyek:

Also, would be great if each engine would clearly state what fuel it requires - some require fuels that the player may not have.

It very clearly does that. Looking at the stats of a drive clearly displays "Propellant Materials Per Tank" and then some combination of space resources that add up to 10.

[Vuyek]

"though i do question what you mean by "partial information and lore dumps", i'm pretty sure i haven't found a single tech that doesn't say exactly what it does (like how clandestine cells explicitly tells the player it gives them +1 councillor slot and i think +25? control points (amount is iffy, i haven't played the game in a while),"

clandestine cells is a PROJECT.
the TECH called We Are Not Alone gives you this project - but the tech does not say what the project does for you.

[RipoffPingu]

Originally posted by Vuyek:

"though i do question what you mean by "partial information and lore dumps", i'm pretty sure i haven't found a single tech that doesn't say exactly what it does (like how clandestine cells explicitly tells the player it gives them +1 councillor slot and i think +25? control points (amount is iffy, i haven't played the game in a while),"

clandestine cells is a PROJECT.
the TECH called We Are Not Alone gives you this project - but the tech does not say what the project does for you.

you can look at the full tech tree to get this information, so i don't see the issue. you can see - clearly - that the tech gives the "clandestine cells" project, and then see the effects of that project. no partial information anywhere.

that, with the "would be great if engines displayed clearly what fuel they require" half convinces me this is a troll, in all honesty.

[Vuyek]

This is ridiculous.

This slight criticism of the game I am addicted to is now a troll.

Everything is troll.

I give up.

[Pawleus]

He suspects you are trolling because info you say is unavailable for a player actually is available in the tech tree - he is probably too hasty in that as there is another explanation: probably, you didn't click the Full Tree button where also projects are listed.

You can also double-click on any project/tech to see all its prerequisites alone.

[debott]

The tech tree provides enough information to be perfectly serviceable. It's been improved several times, and the devs are still working on it. I don't see a huge issue there.

Accessibility, however can still be an issue. (This is true for the entire game, btw.)
I agree that there could be more sub-divisions of some sort, like separate sub-trees for drives/reactors, weapons, or nation building.
I think especially weapons need some heavy pruning, there are too many of them. I.e. laser weapons could be combined into single more expensive projects.

Also, in my experience 'view full tree' takes ~3 seconds to load both when opening and closing. It's anoying when doing it 1000 times. :x

[Vuyek]

"The tech tree provides enough information to be perfectly serviceable. It's been improved several times, and the devs are still working on it. I don't see a huge issue there.

Accessibility, however can still be an issue. "

Again, english is not my first language.

Yes, I am writing not about changing the tech tree, but changing the PRESENTATION of it.

Divide the picture into engine techs, battery techs, political techs, etc. etc. to make it more READABLE.

COLOR CODING the tech tree would help tremendously also.



Also, each tech should be a member of a CATEGORY.

So simple example, all space engine techs would of course be category ENGINE.

That way, search function for "engine" should spit out all engine categories, allowing player to look all of them over, compare and decide.


I don't know how to make projects more accessible and readable for player, any ideas?

[DuX1112]

Originally posted by Vuyek:

"The tech tree provides enough information to be perfectly serviceable. It's been improved several times, and the devs are still working on it. I don't see a huge issue there.

Accessibility, however can still be an issue. "

Again, english is not my first language.

Yes, I am writing not about changing the tech tree, but changing the PRESENTATION of it.

Divide the picture into engine techs, battery techs, political techs, etc. etc. to make it more READABLE.

COLOR CODING the tech tree would help tremendously also.



Also, each tech should be a member of a CATEGORY.

So simple example, all space engine techs would of course be category ENGINE.

That way, search function for "engine" should spit out all engine categories, allowing player to look all of them over, compare and decide.


I don't know how to make projects more accessible and readable for player, any ideas?

All good advice.

[Torpex]

Originally posted by Vuyek:

Yes, I am writing not about changing the tech tree, but changing the PRESENTATION of it.

Divide the picture into engine techs, battery techs, political techs, etc. etc. to make it more READABLE.

COLOR CODING the tech tree would help tremendously also.

They are in categories right now, and they are colour coded. Not in the most intuitive way. And hard to access for uninitiated.

So yes, the tree could benefit from filters, like you suggested. Click engines, and all are listed with relevant science. same for weapons, capital infrastructure etc.

[DarthVishis]

I agree that presentation can be vastly improved.

All the info is there, but if you dont know what youre looking for you are stuffed. Also many techs have stats/attributes that are meaningless in and of themselves. (I am no engineer). So predicting what mass of radiator would result from a given drive plus power plant is something i memorised only after multiple games and many hours in the ship designer.

Would love if the tech tree was actually visually categorised in a way that Distant Worlds tech tree is.

While you can compare drives in the ship designers table mode after you have unlocked the tech, it is impossible to do in the tech tree. (as one example). And the link between different power plants and drives is still nebulous to me after many games. Its not just Fission vs Fusion vs Antimatter, there are also many different sub categories in each larger category. Just not worth memorising and not easy to visually grasp from the way its presented in the tech tree.

Ofc, it falls into place after several games.

Lastly, I will admit that I use an extensive spreadsheet to plan my research, as I just cant be arsed to memorise all the various paths through the tech tree, and its easier than actually browsing the tech tree.

[Anna]

I'm pretty sure right clicking of teach should be a thing not only from main tech tree but from right click output as well, and ability to right click should be communicated to players.

Also switching between "tech tree" and "full tech tree" should be possible for both whole tree and right-click output.

In this case you could right click tech from tech tree switch to full version to have all the information about projects without being overwhelmed. And from any project in tech tree you could right click prerequisite tech switch back to tech only view and take a look at required research path.

This simple UI improvements would solve 95% of readability problems with tech tree for me.

[Pawleus]

Originally posted by DarthVishis:

Would love if the tech tree was actually visually categorised in a way that Distant Worlds tech tree is.

While filters would be very helpful, visually categorizing in the way that Distant Worlds do would probably not be a good idea because of the huge difference in the size of the techtree,

Originally posted by DarthVishis:

While you can compare drives in the ship designers table mode after you have unlocked the tech, it is impossible to do in the tech tree. (as one example).

It's not impossible - it's just much less precise because many factors are unknown to a player so he has to interpret available data (Thrust, EV, Efficiency, open/closed cycle) basing on his experience with the game. I would actually like very much if in the techtree the data was even more imprecise and to some degree random from game to game.

Originally posted by DarthVishis:

And the link between different power plants and drives is still nebulous to me after many games.

I am not sure what you mean by this - in drive descriptions there is usually specified exactly which category of power plant is needed. The size of a power plant needed is what the drive needs (what is in description x the number of engines) + additional power lost because of Efficiency of the power plant.

Originally posted by DarthVishis:

Lastly, I will admit that I use an extensive spreadsheet to plan my research, as I just cant be arsed to memorise all the various paths through the tech tree, and its easier than actually browsing the tech tree.

I don't know why you need a spreadsheet - I do not see any need (unless you have a slow computer) in memorizing any paths in the techtree as I can always check when I play the game.

[Ravenous]

Tech tree became ok when i understood that the commonly researched "upper ones" are umbrella techs for "lower ones that is projects" which only you will have (unless someone steals them from you but hey it goes both ways ;)

[nephilimnexus]

My problem with the tech tree is that you could just delete 3/4th of it and the game wouldn't lose anything of value.