Getting tired of countries nuking their own territories to kill an army - let us sabotage their nukes

[BeltfedVendetta]

First of all, Space Defense Lasers not being able to shoot down nukes in a neighboring country? ...I don't even... W...What? They can shoot down SHIPS in SPACE, yet India can't shoot down nukes that Pakistan is dropping on themselves to stop my army?

Secondly, we can sabotage even a Space Defense laser grid... Why the living hell can we not sabotage another nation's nukes?!

It's getting damn annoying dealing with these nuke happy nations... that are all too willing to NUKE THEMSELVES AND THEIR OWN ARMIES.

And before anyone responds with: "But just purge/coup/increase unrest" - not always an option, especially with Servant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And, if the nukes weren't being tossed around like candy, it would actually be faster than going up against the brick wall that is their own security and popularity.

[corisai]

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

First of all, Space Defense Lasers not being able to shoot down nukes in a neighboring country? ...I don't even... W...What? They can shoot down SHIPS in SPACE, yet India can't shoot down nukes that Pakistan is dropping on themselves to stop my army?

Earth is not flat =/

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

Secondly, we can sabotage even a Space Defense laser grid... Why the living hell can we not sabotage another nation's nukes?!

To simulate a bit real world - nukes are saving world from WW3 for a long time. And they made to be resistant to sabotage or sudden strikes (each "bomb" in game is a several nukes & their carries in fact).

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

And before anyone responds with: "But just purge/coup/increase unrest" - not always an option, especially with Servant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

a) You NEED to deal with superpowers nukes in a some way. That's a strategic mission for you. Solve it.

b) We have several (?) projects that reduce damage from nukes to your armies. That will help against a single random fusion bomb created in third world country.

[Xanthiras]

Originally posted by corisai:

Earth is not flat =/

The visibility from/to 500 km orbit is about 2500 km. In practice somewhat less as much of the periphery of the circle will have some line of sight issues, but a couple thousand kilometers is still enough that a ship above a certain region will still be reachable from a neighboring one.
Of course the ship can also shoot from some distance away, and then if the bombing target is between the ship and the defense system it may be below the horizon for the defense. So in theory a ship might be able to choose an orbit that allows it to bomb target while being safe from the defense in neighboring region, but only if there's only one nearby. If there's multiple on several sides it becomes impossible.

But if we start bringing common sense here, the ship can still be shot at by ground defenses at any point of its orbit (so long as its circular, you might pull bombing off with an eccentric orbit) and regardless of whether it's actually bombing anything itself. So e.g. a space defense in Kenya will have a shot at all ships in equatorial LEO.

[Strap me to a Missile]

You can cheese nukes by abusing the way the game's tickrate works anyway. Not sure what adding arbitrary savescumming or ridiculous cheese (1 army per nuke..,) adds to the game. The way nukes are used could definitely be improved.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Xanthiras:

The visibility from/to 500 km orbit is about 2500 km.

Your Space Defenses are on surface >_<

Originally posted by Xanthiras:

But if we start bringing common sense here, the ship can still be shot at by ground defenses at any point of its orbit (so long as its circular, you might pull bombing off with an eccentric orbit) and regardless of whether it's actually bombing anything itself. So e.g. a space defense in Kenya will have a shot at all ships in equatorial LEO.

No. If we start bringing common sense here, ship will be never hit by ground defenses at all. It will just launch missiles from deep void and will go back :)

[Total Oh No]

When a country uses nukes on their own territory, I think they use them "tactically". They don't fire a barrage of ICBMs at their own territory, they use artillery, bombs, planes.
I'm not sure about this, but I think I actually heard that nukes used on own territory have less economic impact, because they are used tactically instead of strategically.

[MegaDeth]

I just purge/coup such nations, abandon their nukes then abandon the nations.

[BeltfedVendetta]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Xanthiras:

The visibility from/to 500 km orbit is about 2500 km.

Your Space Defenses are on surface >_<

...And MIRVs are going through space. I don't think you understand the dynamics of nuclear ICBMs and radar horizon. It kinda goes up by multiples the higher the altitude. Of which MIRVs and nuclear ICBMs reach/fly at (at some phase in their delivery cycle).

Originally posted by corisai:

To simulate a bit real world - nukes are saving world from WW3 for a long time. And they made to be resistant to sabotage or sudden strikes (each "bomb" in game is a several nukes & their carries in fact).

Missing. The. Point. If we can sabotage a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LASER DEFENSE GRID that is worth billions of dollars of cutting-edge technology and would OBVIOUSLY be guarded... we could sabotage nuclear weapons. Yet we can't, actually, because... "reasons."

Originally posted by corisai:

b) We have several (?) projects that reduce damage from nukes to your armies. That will help against a single random fusion bomb created in third world country.

1.) They are also quite far into research tech trees, far more than they should be.
2.) Researched them. They REDUCE damage. You'll still lose armies to them.

[BeltfedVendetta]

Originally posted by Total Oh No:

When a country uses nukes on their own territory, I think they use them "tactically". They don't fire a barrage of ICBMs at their own territory, they use artillery, bombs, planes.
I'm not sure about this, but I think I actually heard that nukes used on own territory have less economic impact, because they are used tactically instead of strategically.

Your nuclear stockpile is labelled as "Strategic Nuclear Weapons" in the game. Hence why it's the same animation whether you nuke across the globe or your own soil - dozens of ICBMs flying through the sky.

[BeltfedVendetta]

Originally posted by MegaDeth:

I just purge/coup such nations, abandon their nukes then abandon the nations.

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

And before anyone responds with: "But just purge/coup/increase unrest" - not always an option, especially with Servant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And, if the nukes weren't being tossed around like candy, it would actually be faster than going up against the brick wall that is their own security and popularity.

[Total Oh No]

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

Originally posted by Total Oh No:

When a country uses nukes on their own territory, I think they use them "tactically". They don't fire a barrage of ICBMs at their own territory, they use artillery, bombs, planes.
I'm not sure about this, but I think I actually heard that nukes used on own territory have less economic impact, because they are used tactically instead of strategically.

Your nuclear stockpile is labelled as "Strategic Nuclear Weapons" in the game. Hence why it's the same animation whether you nuke across the globe or your own soil - dozens of ICBMs flying through the sky.

Even if the stockpile is labelled strategic, I've seen people say that the game does differentiate between strategic and tactical use of nukes and that the tactical use has lower impact on the global environment or similar stuff. But I'm not sure where to check if this is really true.

[gimmethegepgun]

So then don't invade nations that have nukes? It's literally the main reason why nations arm themselves with nukes.

[BeltfedVendetta]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

So then don't invade nations that have nukes? It's literally the main reason why nations arm themselves with nukes.

There's kinda a reason to do so with forming federations. I don't know how you can suggest this if you've actually played the game...

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

I don't know how you can suggest this if you've actually played the game...

I can suggest that because that's the biggest value that nukes give: not getting invaded.

[BeltfedVendetta]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

I don't know how you can suggest this if you've actually played the game...

I can suggest that because that's the biggest value that nukes give: not getting invaded.

Yes, in real life. In theory. (Most countries are... rather reluctant to nuke themselves during an invasion, however, whereas in-game they'll happily nuke themselves to oblivion.)

This is a game where I can send a Journalist to topple a government in a few weeks all by himself, or sabotage a multi-billion dollar national asset like a laser defense grid. All I'd like is to be able to use said Journalist to also potentially sabotage said country's nukes so I can invade without them nuking themselves.

Your strategical advise is, instead, to basically always play as the Servants...

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by BeltfedVendetta:

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

I can suggest that because that's the biggest value that nukes give: not getting invaded.

Yes, in real life. In theory. (Most countries are... rather reluctant to nuke themselves during an invasion, however, whereas in-game they'll happily nuke themselves to oblivion.)

Yes, in theory they're reluctant to, however in practice there's only been a single nation that's been invaded at all while possessing nuclear weapons, and that was fighting over sparsely-inhabited land in northern India. Because nations don't want to get nuked.

This is a game where I can send a Journalist to topple a government in a few weeks all by himself

A journalist, backed by some of the most powerful organizations in the world.
I'd also remind you that a significant reason behind the fall of Nixon from the Watergate scandal was reporting by the Washington Post with the help of an informant (albeit that took a lot longer).

or sabotage a multi-billion dollar national asset like a laser defense grid.

Which is something that's far more exposed than the strategic nuclear arsenal, given that you're not going to be able to hide the installation, and you don't have those defenses underwater god knows where for most of their lifetime.

without them nuking themselves.

Which is probably the only instance where a nuke could be used in combat without triggering MAD.

Your strategical advise is, instead, to basically always play as the Servants...

The gameplay on Earth is largely espionage. You are a secret cabal trying to control the world towards some aim. Nuclear states are, obviously, not a reasonable target for military operations.