Kinetics and missiles HP?

[Barleyman]

Here's the table I made based on Crimson Lion's spreadsheet which has many details on weapons in the game.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QGRlvKq4S-LfLJeqatQSQuk28mdWrHg5Miv3DUlifhA/edit?usp=sharing
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It's been mentioned a couple of times that the railgun slugs have larger mass and therefore more HP than coil gun. This is a hidden stat if it exists, is a table available anywhere? I failed to Google it.

The same with missiles, intuitively torpedoes are more resilient but how much more is more?

Finally, what about armour HP? The wiki says 1 point of armour can take 20MJ of punishment before expiring. However I've seen an analysis that only some weapons chip or shred armour and its not immediately obvious relationship.

Xeno armour apparently has bonus against lasers, but how much is the bonus? Does it do anything to plasma?

Do any of the armour types have difference in their HP or its just a matter of weight per point?

[Barleyman]

That's the armour reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/TerraInvicta/comments/y7ueun/armor_mechanics_101/

[Barleyman]

Re-reading that guide reminded me it's rather superficial in parts, e.g. Kinetics are shrugged off outright.

My take from that would be that kinetic slug mass can be determined directly from the velocity and the energy released. KE formula is KE = 1/2 * m * v^2
Metric units of course, speed in m/s, mass in kg and KE in Joules.

It doesn't tell us anything about the damage type except the throwaway comment about Coilgun Mk 3 having 30% chipping damage.

[wei270]

ok i yes KE is how you get the mass, and because rail is slower with similar damage, rail has more mass and takes more pd damage.

as for armor damage reduction, damage reduction is based on armor thickness and chipping is based on armor material melting point.

there is nothing on special damamge reduction number base on armor special.

[Barleyman]

So, let's see.. I can work out projectile masses once I added the missing squared to the KE formula.

Human laser PD point defence turret has damage value of 2.5 regardless of range, particle PD sucks so let's forget about it. 2.5 damage will evaporate 25kg of projectile in one shot, presuming it's straight up applied with no shenanigans. The heaviest projectile in the game is the Mk3 Railgun Spinal mount at 105kg. So, this could absorb, on average, four shots of phaser PD before evaporating. What I'm not sure of if the projectile damage follows the remaining shot weight, which would be < 5% on average at this point.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Barleyman:

So, let's see.. I can work out projectile masses once I added the missing squared to the KE formula.

Human laser PD point defence turret has damage value of 2.5 regardless of range, particle PD sucks so let's forget about it. 2.5 damage will evaporate 25kg of projectile in one shot, presuming it's straight up applied with no shenanigans. The heaviest projectile in the game is the Mk3 Railgun Spinal mount at 105kg. So, this could absorb, on average, four shots of phaser PD before evaporating. What I'm not sure of if the projectile damage follows the remaining shot weight, which would be < 5% on average at this point.

Note that the important thing isn't the last 5 kg hitting.

It's the last 5 kg soaking up a fifth point defense shot so that the next slug in line doesn't have to.

[wei270]

your calculation is correct except for the fact that you are using human weapon, you weapons are mostly firing at alien weapons, their stats are a little different. but 4 pd phase shots on one alien advance spinial mag seems correct.

and remember you can greatly increase human lazer, arch lazer, and phaser pd effect with lazer engine.

[Barleyman]

After a bit of digging, aliens use particle PD which is a bit tricky to figure damage for as it depends on range. at 100km it's 0.8 damage every 2 seconds, so 8kg of slug evaporated per shot. This is actually pretty dire, they'd do much better using lasers which clocks in at 3.2 damage every 2.4 sec, but let's not give them ideas..

I edited CrimsonLionDCs ship module chart to match 0.3.35 with the missile salvo changes and fleshed out the weapons with DPS, DPS per slot and so forth.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QGRlvKq4S-LfLJeqatQSQuk28mdWrHg5Miv3DUlifhA/edit?usp=sharing

[wei270]

well particle PD is cheap, and PD is only 1/10 of the weight of lazer PDs. if we look at particle branch of weapon it is not there to competitor with the main weapon branch coil and lazer, but rather as a niche supplement.

where particle PD excels at this one point in the game where you are facing weaker weapons and pd is mostly for missile defense so you can have a very cost effective pd.

same with particle weapons in the early game it can do alot of damage and it can even shot down bigger alien ships such as assault carrier if you can get in range. but the moment you have coil or phaser it can't compete.

[Barleyman]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Barleyman:

So, let's see.. I can work out projectile masses once I added the missing squared to the KE formula.

Human laser PD point defence turret has damage value of 2.5 regardless of range, particle PD sucks so let's forget about it. 2.5 damage will evaporate 25kg of projectile in one shot, presuming it's straight up applied with no shenanigans. The heaviest projectile in the game is the Mk3 Railgun Spinal mount at 105kg. So, this could absorb, on average, four shots of phaser PD before evaporating. What I'm not sure of if the projectile damage follows the remaining shot weight, which would be < 5% on average at this point.

Note that the important thing isn't the last 5 kg hitting.

It's the last 5 kg soaking up a fifth point defense shot so that the next slug in line doesn't have to.

It kind of does matter if that last 5kg strikes with full damage, but according to the guy who made that armour guide, kinetic damage is calculated by slug mass on impact so you will get appropriate "dink" in this case.

[Barleyman]

Originally posted by wei270:

your calculation is correct except for the fact that you are using human weapon, you weapons are mostly firing at alien weapons, their stats are a little different. but 4 pd phase shots on one alien advance spinial mag seems correct.

and remember you can greatly increase human lazer, arch lazer, and phaser pd effect with lazer engine.

I didn't have access to Xeno PD damage stats right away and ended up updating Crimson's spreadsheet with alien PD as well as flashing out the weapons specs. Turns out coilgun is just straight-up superior. Cannons put more shots down range in general and while batteries have slightly slower average fire rate, dps clearly favours coilguns. The difference in slug mass is rather small.

[wei270]

does coilgun put out more shots per min?

[Barleyman]

Originally posted by wei270:

does coilgun put out more shots per min?

With cannons, yes. With batteries, no. But the difference is not major in either case. This does depend on the assumption I made, i.e., there's just the cooldown delay between last and first shot of the salvo, not inter salvo delay + cooldown.

[Barleyman]

Well, another night spent poring over the gamedata, I found a JSON parser (http://json2table.com/) that can generate table ready to be copied into a spreadsheet, that certainly helped. I think it's feature complete as far as weapons go, with details on chipping fraction, bombard values, missile agility and so on. Should satisfy anyone's curiosity about weapon details.

Alien weapon data is not there except for their PDs, some things are shrouded in mystery..

No changes to coilgun and railgun on checking the figures. Coilgun fire pattern is different, though, it fires this salvo with longer period in-between volleys, but the average time-per-shot is better (cannons) or worse (batteries) than railguns and there's not much of a difference in shot weight. DPS is right out in favour of coilguns.

Chipping does add another dimension on how things work but that would get into pointless Excel-fu in my opinion to analyze it too much except to be aware it's there and different weapons do it to different degree.

[wei270]

ok that helps a lot it is primarily the intercept we are worried about between rail and coil. in this case with the fire rate and weight being similar the clear winner is coil with higher velocity and dps