Faction Fleets

[NZK]

Hey,

I've started picking up some mid-game combat tech, which I trialled in skirmish against a sole Alien ship, and to be perfectly honest it was worse than the basic Krait missile. I'm quite keen on actually utilising my new found tech in a useful way, which probably means attacking the Earth Faction fleets.

Do they eventually get to a size where major fleet actions occur? Not just the 3 ship max that I'm encountering at the moment.

Thanks :)

[DeciNinja]

I've never seen more than small skirmishes with other human factions in my game. The AI is pretty bad at building a space economy and tends to get stuck, so it generally can't afford large fleets.

Also, I'm wondering what mid-game weaponry you're talking about.

[All_Mighty]

Yeah, the AI can't really build fleets. The best they had was the Servants building some pretty pathetic ships, which I promptly annihilated. Exodus builds a lot of ships, but that's because they want to leave. Wish there was more human v human combat, but most players expand enough that the AI is starved.

[NZK]

Originally posted by DeciNinja:

I've never seen more than small skirmishes with other human factions in my game. The AI is pretty bad at building a space economy and tends to get stuck, so it generally can't afford large fleets.

Also, I'm wondering what mid-game weaponry you're talking about.

Light Railgun Battery Mk2

[Staines]

Try out the nose coilgun mk2.

[ulzgoroth]

I've actually got a pretty big swarm of Protectorate ships in my game. They've got 27 ships and 1.1k combat rating.

They're also all short-legged local defense boats around the fairly unimportant metallic asteroid 325 Heidelberga. Why? I could not begin to tell you. And they're pretty terrible ships. Their biggest idea is Hermes torpedoes.

In terms of raw rating, Humanity First has even more going on, but that's all over-rated nuclear torpedo boats. Against anybody with point defense they might as well not have showed up, but they can atrocity your space mines pretty well. They nuked a Servants mine off the face of Mars recently. I tolerate them because they haven't blown up anybody I like.

The Initiative used to be building cute little battle groups in high Mars orbit back in maybe '38. I told them to knock that off, then took away their shipyard.

The Servants keep trying to build a cruiser force over Ceres. I've got a destroyer squadron there to explain that that's not allowed as needed. They're using 30mm cannons for defense, which are surprisingly good for final defense against my railguns. Not good enough, but surprisingly good.


So my factions are trying to play the space game. They're not great at it. But they're trying.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by NZK:

Originally posted by DeciNinja:

I've never seen more than small skirmishes with other human factions in my game. The AI is pretty bad at building a space economy and tends to get stuck, so it generally can't afford large fleets.

Also, I'm wondering what mid-game weaponry you're talking about.

Light Railgun Battery Mk2

Light batteries barely count as offensive weapons. Though if you spam enough light kinetics you can overwhelm point defense and chip armor - certain alien ships use that strategy.

[NZK]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by NZK:

Light Railgun Battery Mk2

Light batteries barely count as offensive weapons. Though if you spam enough light kinetics you can overwhelm point defense and chip armor - certain alien ships use that strategy.

It's interesting that you say this, and bearing in mind I'm not bagging the game at all, as I consider it a good purchase. But, while the variety of weapons is awesome, there just doesn't seem to be much practical application for a a lot of it, given the Alien skill/tech level.

Doing the inevitable X-com comparison, the early/mid level weapons were still use able, before reaching the plasma era. From discussions I've seen on this forum, those who have given the Aliens a spanking have written off a lot of the tech available.

It would be nice to have other combat tech strategies be a worth while option against at least the Human Factions, until it's time to throw one up the Aliens.

[DeciNinja]

I don't much like the 1-slot hull cannons; they have low muzzle velocity, low enough damage that they might struggle to penetrate some targets, and they default to trying to shoot down projectiles, which they're terrible at. 2-slots, 4-slots and nose mounts are better. They're good for shooting things that are protected by lots of point defense and thick armor, like three alien dreadnoughts in tight formation.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by NZK:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Light batteries barely count as offensive weapons. Though if you spam enough light kinetics you can overwhelm point defense and chip armor - certain alien ships use that strategy.

It's interesting that you say this, and bearing in mind I'm not bagging the game at all, as I consider it a good purchase. But, while the variety of weapons is awesome, there just doesn't seem to be much practical application for a a lot of it, given the Alien skill/tech level.

Doing the inevitable X-com comparison, the early/mid level weapons were still use able, before reaching the plasma era. From discussions I've seen on this forum, those who have given the Aliens a spanking have written off a lot of the tech available.

It would be nice to have other combat tech strategies be a worth while option against at least the Human Factions, until it's time to throw one up the Aliens.

Railguns are definitely useful against the aliens. Advanced rail cannon is easily my MVP offensive technology since I started using weapons that weren't missiles. (Maybe coilguns will displace it, but they haven't earned the trophy yet.) Heavy rail batteries could probably mess somebody up too. Advanced medium rail batteries went on my first battleships, and probably did some good there.

However, light batteries of anything simply don't have the punch. Even on a hit those things will do less than 3 damage, right? Most ships have enough armor that that literally can't damage them.

(It can gradually chip away their armor to the point that it can, but you'll need a lot of guns or time to get there.)

Light laser batteries are mostly useful as heavy point defense. Light kinetic batteries...might also work as heavy point defense, that is a thing you can have them do. Or you can use them to throw confetti at the enemy and confuse them so that they let missiles or heavier railgun rounds get through.

[NZK]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by NZK:

It's interesting that you say this, and bearing in mind I'm not bagging the game at all, as I consider it a good purchase. But, while the variety of weapons is awesome, there just doesn't seem to be much practical application for a a lot of it, given the Alien skill/tech level.

Doing the inevitable X-com comparison, the early/mid level weapons were still use able, before reaching the plasma era. From discussions I've seen on this forum, those who have given the Aliens a spanking have written off a lot of the tech available.

It would be nice to have other combat tech strategies be a worth while option against at least the Human Factions, until it's time to throw one up the Aliens.

Railguns are definitely useful against the aliens. Advanced rail cannon is easily my MVP offensive technology since I started using weapons that weren't missiles. (Maybe coilguns will displace it, but they haven't earned the trophy yet.) Heavy rail batteries could probably mess somebody up too. Advanced medium rail batteries went on my first battleships, and probably did some good there.

However, light batteries of anything simply don't have the punch. Even on a hit those things will do less than 3 damage, right? Most ships have enough armor that that literally can't damage them.

(It can gradually chip away their armor to the point that it can, but you'll need a lot of guns or time to get there.)

Light laser batteries are mostly useful as heavy point defense. Light kinetic batteries...might also work as heavy point defense, that is a thing you can have them do. Or you can use them to throw confetti at the enemy and confuse them so that they let missiles or heavier railgun rounds get through.

Thanks for the feedback :)

[Eltoron]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by NZK:

It's interesting that you say this, and bearing in mind I'm not bagging the game at all, as I consider it a good purchase. But, while the variety of weapons is awesome, there just doesn't seem to be much practical application for a a lot of it, given the Alien skill/tech level.

Doing the inevitable X-com comparison, the early/mid level weapons were still use able, before reaching the plasma era. From discussions I've seen on this forum, those who have given the Aliens a spanking have written off a lot of the tech available.

It would be nice to have other combat tech strategies be a worth while option against at least the Human Factions, until it's time to throw one up the Aliens.

Railguns are definitely useful against the aliens. Advanced rail cannon is easily my MVP offensive technology since I started using weapons that weren't missiles. (Maybe coilguns will displace it, but they haven't earned the trophy yet.) Heavy rail batteries could probably mess somebody up too. Advanced medium rail batteries went on my first battleships, and probably did some good there.

However, light batteries of anything simply don't have the punch. Even on a hit those things will do less than 3 damage, right? Most ships have enough armor that that literally can't damage them.

(It can gradually chip away their armor to the point that it can, but you'll need a lot of guns or time to get there.)

Light laser batteries are mostly useful as heavy point defense. Light kinetic batteries...might also work as heavy point defense, that is a thing you can have them do. Or you can use them to throw confetti at the enemy and confuse them so that they let missiles or heavier railgun rounds get through.

Year, light (or sometimes 2 slots) laser batteries are crucial for bigger fleet defence since conventional PD has very limited range and can't provide reliable support for nearby ships. The single all-lasers BB make a difference. Small kinetic batteries are useless as damage dealers but great as support to your bigger guns since they are able to spam and suppress enemy PD allowing bigger guns to place a hit.
And yes, coilguns is a direct upgrade to railguns. They have higher damage and velocity. So it's easier to place a hit, overrun PD and crack the armor. The only downside - they are slightly heavier and more expensive.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Eltoron:

And yes, coilguns is a direct upgrade to railguns. They have higher damage and velocity. So it's easier to place a hit, overrun PD and crack the armor. The only downside - they are slightly heavier and more expensive.

Not so much! If you look at the actual stats...

My coil cannon mk 2 I think do slightly less damage per shot than my rail cannon mk 3, and have the same overall rate of fire. It's not as evenly distributed, which might help a little. The shots are faster-moving, but the flip side of that is they have less mass so they take less PD hits to destroy. Overall that means the coil cannon is imposing less total demand on the enemy PD net!

Coil battery mk 2 vs. rail battery mk 3 is a clear damage upgrade, but an outright rate of fire downgrade I think.

Frankly right now I think the coilguns were mostly a waste of research, though I'm expecting once ultracaps unlock advanced coils they'll finally be redeemed.


The higher speed probably does make them better at hitting maneuvering aliens further away, though?

[Eltoron]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Eltoron:

And yes, coilguns is a direct upgrade to railguns. They have higher damage and velocity. So it's easier to place a hit, overrun PD and crack the armor. The only downside - they are slightly heavier and more expensive.

Not so much! If you look at the actual stats...

My coil cannon mk 2 I think do slightly less damage per shot than my rail cannon mk 3, and have the same overall rate of fire. It's not as evenly distributed, which might help a little. The shots are faster-moving, but the flip side of that is they have less mass so they take less PD hits to destroy. Overall that means the coil cannon is imposing less total demand on the enemy PD net!

Coil battery mk 2 vs. rail battery mk 3 is a clear damage upgrade, but an outright rate of fire downgrade I think.

Frankly right now I think the coilguns were mostly a waste of research, though I'm expecting once ultracaps unlock advanced coils they'll finally be redeemed.


The higher speed probably does make them better at hitting maneuvering aliens further away, though?

Maybe. I compare guns of the same tier. Mk.2 vs Mk.2. I got rails late (bad rolls) and was able to build only 3 destroyers with Mk.2 rails when I get access to Mk.2 coils. And with my 3 rails DDs I was able to score i hit maybe twice. And both times it was an isolated from the rest of the fleet enemy escort at the point blank range. As I can see Mk.3 rails are comparable with Mk.2 coils. With big caliber rails tends to provide more damage while smaller calibers are in favor of coils. As for ability to penetrate PD - small coilguns are better, in my opinion, since aliens needs only one hit anyway. And in case of hit - small coils can deal at least some damage. For big guns Mk.3 rails looks like viable choice in comparison with Mk.2 coils especially against low mobile targets.