Can we be honest about the combat please?

[Mirador]

At this point i think everyone has to admit that the combat in this game is a barely functioning joke. The UI is obnoxious at best, malicious and intentionally bad at worst. The fact that THIS is the control scheme they released as playable, really doesn't give me much hope for it ever getting any better, as it shows their fundamental way of thinking of the combat is wrong.

I know the fanboys, devs and other smooth brains will say its realism over fun, but you're wrong. Its not in the least bit realistic and here's why.

Ship design - Why are all the ships long and thin? Once we are making ships in space they can literally be any shape. Rockets are long and thin to cut through the air and limit atmospheric resistance. Once you're in space this no longer matters and allows for more interesting shapes. This shows either a lack of understanding by the devs or a lack of imagination.

Thrust Vectoring - Why dont we have any? IF we were in a war like this, the first thing any person with an IQ larger than a goldfish would do, is put thrust vents on ALL sides of the ship. Front and back absolute minimum. If i need to slow down i DONT want to turn my armour / guns away from the enemy. The fact we are limited to only having one source of directional thrust and then sticking main weapons on a linear track is dumb.

Forward firing locked weapons. WHY? Just Why? In reality that would be the first thing to get junked. I would rather have engines on the front so i can adjust my speed without adjusting my heading. In space / naval combat, the turret is king.

These are all really obvious things, so i can't understand why the devs didn't fix this before release. Either they don't care, have a distinct lack of intelligence or imagination, or lack the talent / skill to make anything better. But judging by the rest of the game, this shouldn't be the case. the rest of the game is solid and really engaging and addictive. But the combat sucks. Like really really SUCKS. The only reason i can logically think of is that if they gave us a usable control scheme and UI in the combat, with functional ship configurations and movement, then it would just emphasise how awful their attempt at combat AI is.

[Coffeecool]

Originally posted by Calv:

Originally posted by Mirador:

The UI / control scheme SUCKS and the actual "combat" is just plain bad.

Oh 100%.
I wouldn't mind the waypoint system, if they weren't so sensitive. Trying to fine tune them is a nightmare.
Feels like it would be much better if we could draw the path we want the ship to take, and then the computer overlays that with the closest possible path the ship can manage.

Being able to change trajectory WHILE your facing is locked to the target would go a long way already.
Right now its either full automatic or full manual.
I had a 10 hour battle yesterday, chasing a runaway ship after a huge battle not wanting to miss out on exotics.

I ended up zooming past the alien ship, missing it by 1000km at 11kps speed, so i couldnt shoot it and had to kill all my velocity again. By the point i was slow enough again we where
100 000 km away from each other. ( I gave up by that point, and the game crshed :))
And that was because ther is no option to set a course to a target, its all manual guess work.

[0nline]

if there are nuclear power plants, they dont seem to be a part of combat system

[corisai]

Originally posted by Mirador:

But other shapes can be useful too.

Other shape suitable for space combat is sphere. Everything else is inferior to it or current "needles".

[MrFailSauce]

A point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that some of these ships have up to 4G combat acceleration. Stability in spacecraft design is already tough. A needle puts the center of mass in front of the center of thrust. At 4G you'd need to be build it structurally like a super strong skyscraper.(cause a normal skyscraper experiences 1G) Any structures that were sticking out from that center line would face some significant torques, in the same way that cantilevered platforms on tall buildings are challenging.

I think the answer to why the ships are long and thin is the same reason we don't have a lot of skyscrapers in the shapes or spheres or inverted pyramids, etc..

[corisai]

Originally posted by MrFailSauce:

At 4G you'd need to be build it structurally like a super strong skyscraper.(cause a normal skyscraper experiences 1G)

You're overestimate difficulty of this task. Modern fighter jets endure 5-8G acceleration. Some missiles even endure ~200G launch acceleration :)

[Lakel]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by MrFailSauce:

At 4G you'd need to be build it structurally like a super strong skyscraper.(cause a normal skyscraper experiences 1G)

You're overestimate difficulty of this task. Modern fighter jets endure 5-8G acceleration. Some missiles even endure ~200G launch acceleration :)

There is a major difference in the forces associated with the size difference of small jets and missiles, versus these ships. Also just being particular but they air frames for modern jets can endure up to 15Gs in manuvers, aint none of them pulling 8Gs of acceleration. Pilots tend to be the limiting factor around 9Gs i manuvers.

[IronSides]

When ever someone accuses people who might disagree as "Fan boys" before they even have a chance to disagree, means i just stop reading right there because you know what type of person that is..... tiny brain can't figure out game instead of saying its too hard for them they just say its a bad game.....

[corisai]

Originally posted by Lakel:

There is a major difference in the forces associated with the size difference of small jets and missiles, versus these ships. Also just being particular but they air frames for modern jets can endure up to 15Gs in manuvers, aint none of them pulling 8Gs of acceleration. Pilots tend to be the limiting factor around 9Gs i manuvers.

Yes but they ALSO forced to withstand air resistance. So for spaceship 4G is more like a nothing (especially as 4G combat acceleration ships are usually made near end of tech tree).

[Majickthyse]

Originally posted by Mirador:

Ship design - Why are all the ships long and thin?

Thrust Vectoring - Why dont we have any? IF we were in a war like this, the first thing any person with an IQ larger than a goldfish would do, is put thrust vents on ALL sides of the ship. Front and back absolute minimum.

Forward firing locked weapons. WHY? Just Why?

These are all really obvious things

I'm no rocket scientist and I'm guessing from your OP you aren't either.

Long and thin - In the early days of space travel when you are relying on boost, ships and stations will be made of cylindrical modules so they can fit on rocket powered launch vehicles. Once you have got beyond the boost stage it would depend if there was a compelling reason or not to change that design. And maybe the devs like long thin designs.

Thrust vectoring - Are you really serious? It would take a massive engine to get a ship to cruise velocity at this stage of development. If you had such engines all round the ship the weight would make it impossible to change course anyway. The obvious way to bleed off the inertia you have built up with your powerful engine is to turn round and burn it the other way. That's how all the spacecraft built to date have worked and is likely to be for the forseeable future.

Forward firing locked weapons - I think they are gimballed rather than locked, except for the massive spinal mount weapons. These are big weapons - building turrets for big weapons adds weight. And it's very easy to change ship attitude in space.

These seem pretty obvious things to me, but then, like you, I'm no rocket scientist...

[Zuul]

Originally posted by corisai:

Yes but they ALSO forced to withstand air resistance. So for spaceship 4G is more like a nothing (especially as 4G combat acceleration ships are usually made near end of tech tree).

In point of fact, there is NOT a lot of air resistance going on. They’re shaped to NOT have to endure it. Maneuvering in such a way that they are subjected to a significant amount of air resistance tends to do things like…uh…rip the plane apart at speed.

Also, a 30k pound plane accelerating is NOTHING like a 10 million pound spaceship (and that’s not even big by the games ship sizes) accelerating at multiple G’s. Hanging 10% of that mass off to the side of the center of thrust in some bizarre attempt to create splendidly “interesting” shapes would snap it off in a heart beat.

It’s like trying to compare a passenger car traveling at 10 mph to a fully loaded freight train traveling at 10 mph. The forces at work are on entirely different magnitudes.

[Willmey]

Originally posted by Brainslug:

Valid points - but next time, maybe try to give feedback without insults?

Why is truth an insult in today's age? Lmao.

[Calv]

Originally posted by Willmey:

Originally posted by Brainslug:

Valid points - but next time, maybe try to give feedback without insults?

Why is truth an insult in today's age? Lmao.

No, the insults are insults:

I know the fanboys, devs and other smooth brains

Either they don't care, have a distinct lack of intelligence or imagination, or lack the talent / skill to make anything better

[Badger BrownCoat]

Originally posted by IronSides:

When ever someone accuses people who might disagree as "Fan boys" before they even have a chance to disagree, means i just stop reading right there because you know what type of person that is..... tiny brain can't figure out game instead of saying its too hard for them they just say its a bad game.....

not only +1 but- sounds like another thread doesn't it?
I just don't think thread ettiquette is how it was in Ironsides day-
and in mine, well, hope you got a boxing game to match that talkin' game.

as to teh actual threads and points;
there was thing we used to use; it was called "search"
and you would find a thread about what you were about to say;
and you wouldtalk in THAT thread;
instead of needing to make a whole NEW thread to bethe center of attention.

I know it's strange, but it is how it was done once.

now every thread is like a SAForums / MB or worse, gone in seconds lost in the endless drone of new threads...
A bit of a metaphor.

hey-0 ps- I am pretty effin far from a fanboi of this-
and i think there's some.. issues.
maybe they'll get better maybe they won't.

buti guarantee a good number of theloudest and rudest wouldn't so much as a PEEP if they were in person.

we all know the type/ loud as a motorbike
wouldn't bust a grape ina fruitfight

keep it civil, you trollboys ain't man enough to back up anything BUT polite.

[Badger BrownCoat]

post script

Originally posted by IronSides:

When ever someone accuses people who might disagree as "Fan boys" before they even have a chance to disagree, means i just stop reading right there because you know what type of person that is..... tiny brain can't figure out game instead of saying its too hard for them they just say its a bad game.....

i know, don't feedthe trolls.
i'm just saying, keep it poilite.

but you in particular i thought might get a kick out fo-
remember "virtually vain" the youtuber?
how they'd change it RIGHT UP when it was no longer hidng behind a keyboard?

but- all aside, you see most ofthese internet geeks won't "uwe bolle" no one-
what they WILL do - is swat each other-
i'm all jokes aside sayingi think the reason we're seeing all this mad ness ( swatting, etc )- I hear about on larger platforms

is no one taught these new-boots-to-the- net that being on the internet
1) doesn't mena you're safe
2) doens't mena you needn't be civil.

I think spankings need to be handed out.
I'mm hold back refernces from personal experiences; but you never knowwhen you might piss old old debt collectors or worse.
hell, you might piss off another streamer and get SWAT-d.
all because - incivility.
Silly, silly bad behavior.
also- another it of advice- ALWAYS PAY YOUR DEALER.
surely, that was random and totally a joke.
I can't belive i came home ot THIS mess, no wonder i'm considering goin back

[IronSides]

I find it extremely hilarious that you would even try and compare arguing over online to actual fist fighting. And for you to even think that anyone here would even bring it that far makes you a complete moron, we are arguing about a game that either love it or hate it we are all passionate about. Deal with it.