space combat is not that deep ^^

[Bozz 💀]

I'm playing first time through mid game on hard difficulty.

I mean when you see the tech tree with all those weapons and engines you feel like it's very deep.
before my first few fights the strategy essentially was to close the distance as fast as possible and deliver all my firepower in close contact to overhelm their PD and score hits.

after a few battle that's completelly useless because the ennemy AI has no strategy at all.

when battle starts they fire all their weapons from max distance which means my PDs will intercept 95% of incoming fire.

then they full charge towards you ignoring flanking and ship positioning, they just charge which means you can fly as slow as possible and wait for them to close the distance, then you just deliver everything you have and you'll kill half their navy....

This is with 2030s military tech.

I use 1K fleets against 2-3K Echo fleets...

I hope this improves, no point making so much techs, they make not much difference better work on AI and ship behaviours....

[corisai]

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

then they full charge towards you ignoring flanking and ship positioning,

Past early game "combat" designs (aka kamikaze boats) - trying to flank your ships is definitely a suicidal move. AI loved it a lot previously but now seems a bit better.

[adobo]

Flying as slow as possible is your only choice anyways. You'll never have the speed to chase them down in a fight.

Just pack your fleet as tight as possible and hope for the best.

[corisai]

Originally posted by majikero:

Flying as slow as possible is your only choice anyways. You'll never have the speed to chase them down in a fight.

Except:
a) you will in lategame (BTW - chem rockets too capable to overrun aliens for a short time in battle).

b) and even you should do it on dedicated ship to avoid loosing exotics from their escaped half-dead ship.

[Iron Horse]

You need two monitors. I like Copperhead Missiles on one, with one point defense, and the other with point defense and one Copperhead. You overwhelm their point defense at range, and kill them before they reach you.

The aliens are more technologically advanced. Killing one destroyer for the quest is good to unlock techs. You don't really need to do much space combat at all until you are ready. Don't build many space stations around Earth, unless you can defend them, and focus and expansion, and getting more tech?

[Iron Horse]

The mass missile strategy works well in the mid game until they start sending their Dreadnaughts. You can win many fights, with mass missiles and monitors. You can even win vs the Dreadnaught with nukes, but may lose half your ships or so.

Three heavy missile Moniters in Block Formation with two point defense moniters works well. I like having the spread on the point defense. At some point, there is a technology that allows EMP's to work against the aliens which helps.

[N311]

what determines which incoming missiles/projectiles alien PD will target first.

[ulzgoroth]

I've been taking the view that nukes are sucker bait, and have yet to see anything to change my mind. Sure, one hit one kill, but one Ares torpedo or even Athena torpedo will do debilitating damage, and they've got better flight characteristics. A big ship probably won't instantly die, but if it loses its battery or its fire control it's toast all the same.

[Eltoron]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Sure, one hit one kill.

Or not. Just now enemy dreadnought tanks three direct nukclear torpedo hits and survives without any damage dealt. I wonder how it's possible?

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Eltoron:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Sure, one hit one kill.

Or not. Just now enemy dreadnought tanks three direct nukclear torpedo hits and survives without any damage dealt. I wonder how it's possible?

ECM?

[Belligerent Engine]

The elements are there to make it deep, but weapons and armor are poorly balanced and the AI is bad. With proper balance all the weapons potentially have a place.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Belligerent Engine:

The elements are there to make it deep, but weapons and armor are poorly balanced and the AI is bad. With proper balance all the weapons potentially have a place.

No? All weapons have their uses (probably aside from particle beams).

[Eltoron]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Eltoron:

Or not. Just now enemy dreadnought tanks three direct nukclear torpedo hits and survives without any damage dealt. I wonder how it's possible?

ECM?

Maybe. Does ECM cause huge explosion and 0/0/0 damage icons on ship card?

[corisai]

Originally posted by Eltoron:

Maybe. Does ECM cause huge explosion and 0/0/0 damage icons on ship card?

Are you using shaped nukes? They could deal minimal damage if target is not caught by cone.

[Badger BrownCoat]

Just- from the guide:

Originally posted by Citronsaft:

missile
this is the damage number you see in the weapon screen.

a nuke direct hit always shreds 50 armor (hardcoded by warhead type), all other missiles do not shred as part of the direct hit (regular nuclear only--shaped nuclear does not have flat shred)

nuclear damage is 100% chipping: the only way a nuke does damage to hull is either by fully chipping all of the armor or by fully shredding all of the armor in its own hit

burst
only nuclear, shaped nuclear, and antimatter can do burst damage. this is AoE damage.

base burst damage is approximately 8% of the base damage (divide by 12.566371)

burst damage is further reduced by distance squared, as you'd expect

shaped nuclear deals 10x the regular burst damage in a 20 degree cone in front, and 0.1x the regular burst damage otherwise

burst damage does not do regular damage or chipping damage--it is purely shredding damage

is how it works in-game.
anyone who wants to send me cookies re: old discussions , I may be the cookie monster

if you want to sci-fi debate is it survivable;
imma lean towards " more than most think - if the radiation doesn't get ya"
( and that's a debate i've seen a-plenty of, interesting but for another time/place IMO- what matters here is how it works in THIS game )

- as far as EMP& other effects, far as I can tell ( so far- awaitingmore info) -
game doesn't seem to take into consideration EMP / overload effects; or heat on target
( i was modding plasma )

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

I mean when you see the tech tree with all those weapons and engines you feel like it's very deep.
after a few battle that's completelly useless because the ennemy AI has no strategy at all.

I hope this improves, no point making so much techs, they make not much difference better work on AI and ship behaviours....

Not arguing,, just to clarify if i may; for myself before the thread gets any more off off-topic-

your criticism is mainly:
* the AI can't use any of it well at this point
* alot of the "rich tech tree" is really sucker-traps

is that in essence, The Gist ?

[corisai]

Originally posted by Badger BrownCoat:

if you want to sci-fi debate is it survivable;
imma lean towards " more than most think - if the radiation doesn't get ya"
- as far as EMP, far as I can tell ( so far- awaitingmore info) -
game doens't seem to take into consideration EMP / ovberload effects; or heat on target
( i was modding plasma )

Because:

a) No long-ranged EMP in deep space as no source to get free electrons (and it will be huuuuge inside Earth magnetosphere but using it will be suicidal for humans - say goodbye to most satelites and tons and tons of civilian stuff!).

b) At distances when you still feel some EMP effects - you armor will already killing you thanks to impact shock after absorbing enough X-ray (and without magic mythril you can't do anything here but bring a lot of ablative foam in hope to survive).