How much armor is enough armor?

[Hellfire]

Even thick-skull Paradox learned that numbers and systems must be clear and in the open. Not these devs. Anyway, since I'm free to put on ships any amount of armor without any reference, do more experienced playres know how much armor is enough armor to have my ships reliably withstand a decent amount of alien fire?

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

Originally posted by Sunny:

Lern to fight manuall.
50 side and rear is massive overkill to weight.
10 - 10 if you know what to do in space combat

There are 8 or 9 point defence arrays on each alien platform. With a limited number of ships for economical reasons, it was impossible to destroy all of them before having one of these arrays in my flank fire arc. By the way they were meant to be slow to minimize this risk.

So yup I knew what I was doing. Protecting the flanks to avoid being destroyed by any flanking shot, armoring the rear in case I'd have to perform a full stop.

Some people send 40-50 suicide ships with missiles at a station, Stalingrad style, I destroy these with 5 finely tuned dreadnoughts.

There are more than 9 Def Arrarys in the Endgame.
Nine Def Stations is more mid game and killable without Titans/Dreads

Sorry but i can repead : 50 side Armor ist nonsense if you know what to do against stations^^.

4 Titans with 150 Front Armor can handle easy a Endgame Station.
My Station Clean Up Fleet has 150-5-5 and work good on Brutal.

Some ppl send 40 kamikaze ships and
some people give side armor 50 (and got never hitted but we need 50..)
....both are not great gameplay.

You have to spez Ships.
I only talk about Stationkiller Titans/Dreads....next time you tell pll to use missle in the endgame...........

[corisai]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

As of now only alien stations can do this, you're right. I was just imagining what well designed alien ships might do. Like having a few ships with heavy plasma weaponry, or even dedicated dreadnought firing only plasma instead of firing only missiles like they do now.

They're - top tier alien designs are based around moderately-armored ships with heavy investment into plasma. Check them in Skirmish :)

Originally posted by Sunny:

You have to spez Ships.
I only talk about Stationkiller Titans/Dreads....next time you tell pll to use missle in the endgame...........

You don't.

This is my endgame dreadnought:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882350270

12 of them killed alien hab with 12 LD. Without any casualities & this is most damaged ship in fleet.

They're almost capable to break station PD too (some leaks had happened). So once I will have more dreadnoughts then aliens have LD - hab assault will turn into cakewalk (not even mention that those ships butcher any fleet aliens capable to make in campaign and even perform very well in Skirmish).

[wei270]

some time a angled frontal shot can result in a side hit. especially siege battles. where alien firepower are a bit more spread out.

[Veniczar B. Fontana]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

There are 8 or 9 point defence arrays on each alien platform. With a limited number of ships for economical reasons, it was impossible to destroy all of them before having one of these arrays in my flank fire arc. By the way they were meant to be slow to minimize this risk.

So yup I knew what I was doing. Protecting the flanks to avoid being destroyed by any flanking shot, armoring the rear in case I'd have to perform a full stop.

Some people send 40-50 suicide ships with missiles at a station, Stalingrad style, I destroy these with 5 finely tuned dreadnoughts.

There are more than 9 Def Arrarys in the Endgame.
Nine Def Stations is more mid game and killable without Titans/Dreads

Sorry but i can repead : 50 side Armor ist nonsense if you know what to do against stations^^.

4 Titans with 150 Front Armor can handle easy a Endgame Station.
My Station Clean Up Fleet has 150-5-5 and work good on Brutal.

Some ppl send 40 kamikaze ships and
some people give side armor 50 (and got never hitted but we need 50..)
....both are not great gameplay.

You have to spez Ships.
I only talk about Stationkiller Titans/Dreads....next time you tell pll to use missle in the endgame...........

Nice.

It worked for me. It can definitely make sense. It is from your test not optimal. I can't test everything. Guess you can. Yet it make sense to protect your back from incoming fire -when full reversing- and your sides from stray shots.

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

As of now only alien stations can do this, you're right. I was just imagining what well designed alien ships might do. Like having a few ships with heavy plasma weaponry, or even dedicated dreadnought firing only plasma instead of firing only missiles like they do now.

They're - top tier alien designs are based around moderately-armored ships with heavy investment into plasma. Check them in Skirmish :)

Nice ! I've never seen any of these in game though after a 2060 playthrough. My aliens must be very lazy. I guess they are pretty dangerous with those ships ?

Btw why are your endgame ships using repair bays ? As far as I know they don't really work. Or do they ?

[corisai]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

Nice ! I've never seen any of these in game though after a 2060 playthrough. My aliens must be very lazy. I guess they are pretty dangerous with those ships ?

Yes. They're still poorly designed (mixing lasers&plasma with kinetics) but much more durable and laser&plasma combo is annoying especially if you lack heavy armor.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

Btw why are your endgame ships using repair bays ? As far as I know they don't really work. Or do they ?

Because they're AWESOME? :)

Repair bay:
a) Is working only during a battle. Zero effect on strategic map.

b) During battle each XX secs it's repairing damaged but not destroyed components (in same time I'd seen them repairing even fully destroyed components AFTER battle - bug or feature don't know).

c) It have a strong synergy with heavy armor (=less internal hits) & component armor (=more durable internals) and especially good in countering enemy plasma (=attacks on aliens habs).

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

Originally posted by Kuro:

You need point defence phasers, I put 4 on dreadnoughts and 2 on Titans. That you have to watch out of enemy Frigs and corvettes flanking you. My ships armor is like 10-20 in back 4-5 on sides ad 20-30 on front. I have less for my frigates and corvettes. I'm currently fighting with 120 ships vs 180 Aliens ships in a 90k doomstack and winning. Alien kinetics is absolutely stupid and would destroy like 1/3 of your ships before they even start firing lasers, after that, the fight is pretty even

Yes it works very well against most alien ships. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure you can even win with half your ships. Cause the alien ship designing skills are just so low..

However against ships or battle stations with plasma... 30 armor will block the first hits but repeated shots will destroy you easily. Cause plasma can't be intercepted by PDs.

If the aliens add more plasma ships to their fleet in later build of the game, you'd have to change your layout to include at least 50 frontal armor. Good news is : with endgame thrusters, 50 frontal armor is really not a problem.

Yep exactly, I haven't noticed a lot of Aliens with plasma, probably because I started destroying the Alien stations around 2057, its now 2067 and killing this last major doomstack near Pluto, then I can win as Resistance. Alien AI is dumb asf at lategame. They really need to fix Alien AI since they only target Earth Habs

[N311]

With weapons that hit in salvos does the stated damage for the weapon per a shot or for the hole salvo

e.g. if alien does 200 damage and it has salvo of 3.

is each salvo 3 shots of 200 damage projectiles

or

3 shots of 66.66

[direstorm]

Just for kicks I tried putting together a 5x icarus drive dreadnought with 50 front, 35 side, 20 rear. It costs over a thousand precious metals to make.

My previous iteration with a 4x zeta helion drive and 35 front, 15 side, 16 rear, costs 420 PM, and a battleship with 30/12/12 costs 140 PM. So, for every dreadnought with medium armor I could instead have three battleships, and for every dreadnought with heavy armor I can have six battleships or two medium dreadnoughts.

Given the difference in firepower between one tank and six dps, I'm generally going to be inclined to take the DPS, as long as it doesn't crash my game when the fight loads.

[corisai]

Originally posted by direstorm:

Given the difference in firepower between one tank and six dps, I'm generally going to be inclined to take the DPS, as long as it doesn't crash my game when the fight loads.

Take best from two worlds: something like 70/10/10 or 70/15/15 with Component Armor & Repair Bay.

[Soul]

Take just enough armor to shrug off some laser and plasma fire and rely on point defense and agility for the rest. I suggest 5/1/5 (more nose armor if you can afford it on your line ships) and rely on numbers over quality for ships. I would rather have a hundred dirt cheap mobile glass cannons than a handful of heavily armored bricks that can barely move / chase

[corisai]

Originally posted by Soul:

I suggest 5/1/5 (more nose armor if you can afford it on your line ships)

5 armor will be penetrated by all types of plasma weapons. Poor suggestion.

[HolyCrab]

Assault Ship:

My current armor values and some details:

Assault Ship: 80/200/200 (2000/6000/6000 if possible). Get biggest, fattest and meanest hull you can get; designed to be floating rocks and take a lot of punishment. Moves opint A to B directly, no turning at all.

Nuke Carrier: 50/50/50 (don't care). I use Dreadnaught Hull, they just carry full arsenal of Nukes and 6x ammo. Tactic - Alpha Strike and run.

Escort Ships: 20/40/40 (as high as possible while keeping her agility and speed reasonable). Monitor with 4x best laser turrets. They are there to rear guard your Assault Ship (not Screen) and protect Nuke Ships (Screen).

Fighters: 10/10/10 (agility and speed is most important, so, may be 20/20/20 at most). Gunship with a best laser. Their duties are Catch, Flank, Secrifice (Screen for all).

I don't use any other armored type of ships.

[Enoukdep Mav]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Reallistically you don't want to try your luck against alien kinetics, ever.

Or missiles.

Armor exists to counter energy weapons, 5~10 should counter all lasers unless they come too close, and I don't remember if any of their plasmas get above 30~45 damage, so it should be in that range, anything above that might let you survive one hit from alien kinetics, but if you get hit once you're going to get twice, or thrice, and then you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

So spam point defense, no, seriously, SPAM it, I even have battleships equiping 1 slot regular lasers on every nose and hull slot acting as mobile point defense platforms for my fleet, don't ever let a single shot through and you'll survive.

My moment of truth for mid-game ship design was sending a Hail-Mary colony battleship to the Jovian system. After a *lot* of thought... Nose Railgun, 1 laser battery, 4 point defense. fuel, 1 point of nose armor. Got through, 4 intercept duels won.

EDIT: I supposed that if I ever fought more than one ship at a time I was dead. Intercepting Destroyers and Frigates that leaned into Magnetic cannons and missiles could have their offense neutralized and be peeled apart by the one laser over time, ships that used beam main armament could be taken out by the Rail Cannon when they lined up a shot and I prayed to Newton (that happened).

[Chauffeur]

Yep exactly, I haven't noticed a lot of Aliens with plasma, probably because I started destroying the Alien stations around 2057, its now 2067 and killing this last major doomstack near Pluto, then I can win as Resistance. Alien AI is dumb asf at lategame. They really need to fix Alien AI since they only target Earth Habs

Uh... When did your hate meter go red?
If you didn't go after the ayyyyys until 2057 what have you been doing to stop them from blowing up your habs and stations for the last twenty years?