Rush Luna mining vs Mars...?

[cswiger]

Hi, all--

I'm on my second game. The first time, I tried building a Space Dock + Xeno lab early on and discovered that supporting this ate up all of my boost, so I couldn't do much of anything else. And watched as the other groups started moon colonies, while the Servants took over Russia, Ukraine, and started nuking me in Europe.

My second playthrough, I and the Academy tag-teamed the Servants when they tried for Russia early on and I also hold a fair amount of eastern Europe.

Anyway, I have been saving my boost for the moon this time. I've got about 31 boost income per year, and I'm spending some effort to getting more MC as well, but 3 MC is enough for two bases and a orbital facility.

I just grabbed what I figured was the best site with a hab, and we're about to unlock Space Mining so I can build some mines. And also just about to unlock Mission to Mars, so I'd like to get some guidance on what to prioritize:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2882385742

Is sending a probe to Mars more important, or should I get a working Space Dock and launch further probes using that?

Should I build a mine first, and then use those resources to build a Space Dock in orbit and go from there? Or should I build a second hab on another moon site first, in particular the one with 35.5 Metal + 14.5 fissionables?

[Smegish]

Getting some income in as many resources as you can can save you alot of boost when you go for Mars. That 35/5 metal + fissionables looks good to me as well, and maybe Mare Tranquilitatus for the Noble Metals if you have the boost spare while you wait for Mars

[SpiderKhan]

Generally mars is the first place to mine/go, and looking at that Luna that's definitely the case here. The most I would have done is placed an outpost on the high fissiles site (no mining yet) just to claim it if I had the excess boost/boost income for whatever reason. Even if you don't you can just marine it later.

Definitely send the probe to mars and start mining it asap. You want a site with the first four resources all available ideally (water, volatiles, metals, noble metals, also fissiles for the power). You can use excess boost to go ahead and claim other mars sites.

[Damedius]

That's actually a good because moon because of the Fissiles. I would grab the spot. Should only cost you 6 or 7 boost. You don't have to build a mine yet. I would then build a mine on Shackleton that will give you everything you need to get to Mars. That will cost you 3 MC. 2 for the outposts and 1 for the mine.

Then you have a choice. Do you want to dominate Mars or just take a couple of the best sites and take all of Ceres. It will depend what they both look like. You are also going to want more MC for Mercury eventually because that will give you even more MC.

[Homer Morisson]

The common consensus seems to be to skip Luna pretty much entirely and go straight to Mars for min/maxing reasons.

Personally though, I've established both the (so far) only Lunar Station in the Interface Orbit*, plus a Mining Base to get the "standard" Space Resources going for both my Lunar and Earth Interface Orbit Stations.

The AI also went for Luna, I took over two of their stations and had free mining complexes, resources rolling in nice enough to manage those stations for now, giving me a bit of breathing room until I get to Mars.

I also like it from a roleplaying/Hard SciFi perspective, with Luna being the obvious and ideal staging ground for deeper exploration into the Solar System, building Shipyards in Orbit, having Habs on the ground for Resources and also Personnel Transfer and Research.

*= It would also be amazing, dear Devs, if having the only Interface Station would mean that all the other Factions would have to pay me fees/taxes for use of said Interface, all the resources going through my docks, thus I get my cut and full control over them while they are onboard.

That'd make Station placement and especially getting there first much more strategically relevant and engaging, plus it'd be a very cool gameplay thing to deepen the economic side of things.

[cswiger]

There seems to be a diversity of opinions, so thank you all. :-)

I think I will grab the second site with really good minerals + fissionables, and then build a Space Dock afterwards. What about building it in a high Lunar orbit, to minimize the delta-v needed to leave for Mars compared to the Earth orbits, especially LEO?

Can you intercept things stationed at the moon which are headed for Earth reasonably well? I get that I want at least 10 km of delta-V for local interceptors....

[Damedius]

Originally posted by cswiger:

What about building it in a high Lunar orbit, to minimize the delta-v needed to leave for Mars compared to the Earth orbits, especially LEO?

I don't like to build ship yards and ships till later when you have good technology. I prefer to get my mining operations, LEO stations and Mercury MC/research hub going first.

MC is tight until you get Mercury up and running.

[cswiger]

Originally posted by Damedius:

I don't like to build ship yards and ships till later when you have good technology. I prefer to get my mining operations, LEO stations and Mercury MC/research hub going first.

MC is tight until you get Mercury up and running.

Don't you save boost by having a Space Dock from which you can launch probes or construct additional hab modules on Luna etc directly?

[Ruinous]

One ship with marines early on is all you need. You can use that for taking over any nice sites you missed in the initial rush. I'd get decently tech'ed up before using resources on building a proper fleet as several layered defence can mostly keep your habs and stations safe till its time to 'go loud' and take things to the aliens properly.

[Damedius]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Originally posted by Damedius:

I don't like to build ship yards and ships till later when you have good technology. I prefer to get my mining operations, LEO stations and Mercury MC/research hub going first.

MC is tight until you get Mercury up and running.

Don't you save boost by having a Space Dock from which you can launch probes or construct additional hab modules on Luna etc directly?

So you pay boost to get to the site. Once there if you have the resources you can build at that site which doesn't require boost. If you build a construction module at your first site you can use resources instead of boost for new out posts at that celestial body. Probes cost 0.5 boost.

[流れ星]

A few games in I feel no need to rush space development at all. Who cares if you're the first to build a base somewhere? There's not trophy for that. Yes, you want that fissiles deposit on Luna, yes, you want a few decent mines for all basic resources on Mars. But you can simply buy the mines. Academy just gave me its one and only Mars mining outpost for 20k moneys, 2 useless 1 star orgs and 20 boost. Despite being in conflict with my faction. As soon as you can use marines, you can also seize the outposts. It doesn't matter if you're first on Mars. The only thing that matters is that you're on Mars. Which is rather trivial.

[SirKnechtalot]

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

The common consensus seems to be to skip Luna pretty much entirely and go straight to Mars for min/maxing reasons.... plus it'd be a very cool gameplay thing to deepen the economic side of things.

Yes, i´d agree with that. In my game Luna´s so trashy it´s simply not worth the effort let alone the MC cost. I realy hope the finished game´d be somewhat different from the current game in that regard since Lagrange points won´t give you anyhting right now. Some "traffic data" or orbit advantages might be a reaason to build them at all. Right now it´s just a worthless asset you need to defend.
I don´t know whether tweaking boost cost too much´ll starve players too much but such are the advantages of having a Lunar or Lagrange base in the first place. It´s hard to escape earth`s gravity well?
Maybe we´re just playing the noob game difficulty but as of now i don´t see any point not to skip the Mun.

[Homer Morisson]

Originally posted by cswiger:

There seems to be a diversity of opinions, so thank you all. :-)

I think I will grab the second site with really good minerals + fissionables, and then build a Space Dock afterwards. What about building it in a high Lunar orbit, to minimize the delta-v needed to leave for Mars compared to the Earth orbits, especially LEO?

Can you intercept things stationed at the moon which are headed for Earth reasonably well? I get that I want at least 10 km of delta-V for local interceptors....

If you want to be able to transfer goods easily back and front between surface and orbit, you need to build your Station in (one of) the Interface Orbit(s).

On Earth, only Stations in an Interface Orbit can sell Resources to Earth, for example.
No Idea if something similar is actually implemented for the other planets and planetoids, but again from a Hard SciFi perspective it also makes sense to place your Transfer Stations, or Waystations if you would, in the Interface Orbit, just so it's relatively easy to reach them from Ground without much wasted resources, and likewise easy to leave them towards Space, without too much Gravity holding you back.

Pretty much a nice compromise between the two.

That said, personally I'd always decide on the placement of your Stations based on their purpose:

- a Shipyard should for example shouldn't really be placed in the lowest Orbit, but also not in the highest either, as you both want to your Shipyards to experience as little Gravity as possible, to make it possible and easier to construct especially bigger ships, but at the same time, you want to be able to relatively easily ship resources to, and protect your Shipyards.

- a Classified BlackOps Research Station on the other hand I would place out of the way of the obvious travel routes, i.e. right close to an Asteroid, lowest Orbit available to hide it from sensors and to also allow quick & easy deployment of Marines to and from the surface of the Asteroid.

- a Refuelling Station on the other hand I'd place in the highest Orbit of any given Planet/Moon, thereby making it easy to reach coming in, and also a nice stopping point to top up coming out/coming up the gravity well, for those ships that can.

[Homer Morisson]

Originally posted by SirKnechtalot:

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

The common consensus seems to be to skip Luna pretty much entirely and go straight to Mars for min/maxing reasons.... plus it'd be a very cool gameplay thing to deepen the economic side of things.

Yes, i´d agree with that. In my game Luna´s so trashy it´s simply not worth the effort let alone the MC cost. I realy hope the finished game´d be somewhat different from the current game in that regard since Lagrange points won´t give you anyhting right now. Some "traffic data" or orbit advantages might be a reaason to build them at all. Right now it´s just a worthless asset you need to defend.
I don´t know whether tweaking boost cost too much´ll starve players too much but such are the advantages of having a Lunar or Lagrange base in the first place. It´s hard to escape earth`s gravity well?
Maybe we´re just playing the noob game difficulty but as of now i don´t see any point not to skip the Mun.

Guess Luna is randomised AF then, as I had least had two reasonably good spots, as I said, at least to comfortably allow me to hold and maintain three Lunar Bases, one Lunar Station and one LEO Station, plus even get the tiniest bit of monthly income still.

As for Lagrange Points, valid point, and just imagine if the game allowed us to build proper Listening Stations, for example... yes, we get instant realtime updates on Alien Fleet Movement, sure, but not on the movements of the other Human AIs, and even so, a Listening Station could also potentially give you extra Bonuses when tussling with the Alien fleets.

Stuff comparable to what you get when one of your Councilors detains an enemy agent, which will make it much easier for a second Councilor to kill or turn them, as compared to not having detained them first.

A Listening Post could do something similar, giving you a bonus to hit the enemy ships due to your agents having figured out a weakness, or analyzed the enemy's go-to tactics, etc pp.

That'd make Lagrange Stations really valuable strategically and tactically, beyond just being Refuelling Waystations.

[SirKnechtalot]

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

... a Listening Station could also potentially give you extra Bonuses when tussling with the Alien fleets....

Yes, giving hit bonuses during combat or saving you deltaV for precisely calculating interception courses in a bubble around them, causing other faction to increase deltav use (avoiding missles?) in said bubble, having better data on enemy ships you name it. There´re plenty of uses for such bases.
Also smaler ships should be harder to detect in the asteriod belt adding use to building streched bases in the belt. I mean i makes sense doesn´t it? A corvete can hide in the belt. There´s little stealth in space but having "brik ships" might help humans playing dead when fleeing from aliens...

I hope it´s just due to being EA condition of the game.