Any point to bigger ships?

[VDmitry]

I already had few space battles, though my ships are still small and fragile.

But I'm still curious on why to build larger ships? In particular the armor cost is much worse, not saying about maneurability. So it's much cheaper to have armor 10 with corvette than armor 10 on dreadnought. But they do the same, right?

[fluxtorrent]

Costs less to build and keep 1 dread than the same firepower worth of corvettes, both in upkeep and fuel getting them around for one thing. That being said unlike many games the sizes dont become irrelevant as you unlock the bigger ones. its a good idea to protect your bigger ships with smaller ones. I try to keep 3 "destroyer" size ships and 4 "corvette" sized for each battleship size one, havent unlocked dreadsize yet myself

[Veniczar B. Fontana]

Originally posted by VDmitry:

I already had few space battles, though my ships are still small and fragile.

But I'm still curious on why to build larger ships? In particular the armor cost is much worse, not saying about maneurability. So it's much cheaper to have armor 10 with corvette than armor 10 on dreadnought. But they do the same, right?

Having bigger ships allows you to field bigger weapons. For instance, the 720cm lasers have much more firepower and armor penetration at long range than 6 corvettes equiped with 120 cm lasers. Even at short range I think the bigger laser will be better.

However the bigger ship will have more trouble handling swarms of missiles, so having a good escort is compulsary.

[Batailleuse]

Depends on your economy and what you want to do.

Smaller ship en masse outfitted with missiles makes short work of anything, but it will cost a tons to refuel.

so you can use say 10 Monitor/Destroyer to defend Orbital objectives, low maintenance cost and high effectiveness.

but to go further and attack unless you have an economy pumping 2000+ water a month, it's better to be cost/refuel effective bigger ships, even if technically you'd be more powerful just fielding as many missiles/torpedo as possible.

[DWI_Suriil]

Battle cruiser have 8 real weapons slots, costs 3 CP.
Medium ships have at best 4 weapon slots, costs 2 CP -> to get 8 weapons you need 4 CP.
Build a battle cruiser lasts 150 days
Build a medium ship 100 days -> build 2 lasts you 200 days.

Then comes the costs - medium ships will cost you about x2 times Battle cruiser.

Also , concentration of weapons on 1 ship allows you to better resist missiles swarms. I usually go for 3-4 PD , that will solve the problem of alien missiles.
On medium ships either you use all slots to attack weapons or to PD. If you field 2 PD , they will get swarmed anyway.

Also , you can , as a smart man told above - fill the ship with bigger guns. And almost in every case weapon that uses 2 slots >>>>>> 2 weapons that use 1 slot. And weapon that use 4 slots >>>>> 2 weapons 2 slots >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 weapons 1 slot.

ONLY CON vs big ships - > Fuel usage. Until very very very late game you will suffer from luck of fuel and your ships are 99% to stay on the orbit and defend you.
Later , with more income and more performant drives you can move.

[DWI_Suriil]

General advice - biggest problem early game is construction time. So if you are in a stade of the game where you stat to retalliate to aliens - go for quality.
Only 1 thing - make sure they dont cost too much preciouse metals , those are pretty hard to get in mid game.

[VDmitry]

Still uncertain. I'm currently using Monitor class which has up to 4 slots to use for missiles. The better option in that regard is Cruiser with 6 slots. Adding it takes longer to build it's not that big difference.

I've tried using laser weapons on Battle-cruiser but had complete failure as it wasn't able to fire even once (unlike my missile ships do). The enemy dreadnaughts have gun with 450 damage and longer range and NOTHING can survive that.

I don't think I can create yet a cruiser with enough manuerability to avoid such hit. My smaller missile ships can try that though.

[Fwiffo]

Originally posted by VDmitry:

Still uncertain. I'm currently using Monitor class which has up to 4 slots to use for missiles. The better option in that regard is Cruiser with 6 slots. Adding it takes longer to build it's not that big difference.

Cruiser has 3 hull slots, 2 nose slots and 6 utility slots. You're thinking of the battleship.

Originally posted by VDmitry:

I've tried using laser weapons on Battle-cruiser but had complete failure as it wasn't able to fire even once (unlike my missile ships do). The enemy dreadnaughts have gun with 450 damage and longer range and NOTHING can survive that.

I'm currently trying out lancers decked out with 4 single-slot nose lasers, a 2-slot laser battery and a PD - all set to guardian - to great effect. Enemy projectiles cannot make it anywhere close to that laser cloud.

[VDmitry]

Originally posted by Fwiffo:

I'm currently trying out lancers decked out with 4 single-slot nose lasers, a 2-slot laser battery and a PD - all set to guardian - to great effect. Enemy projectiles cannot make it anywhere close to that laser cloud.

May be it was a bug then. My cruiser had 2 PD lasers and it didn't try to short the projectile.

[Fwiffo]

Originally posted by VDmitry:

May be it was a bug then. My cruiser had 2 PD lasers and it didn't try to short the projectile.

Oh yeah, PDs were buggy to all hell before yesterday. However, yesterday, a patch came out that made PDs more likely to at least shoot at projectiles, significantly increasing their effectiveness. It's still weird at times, but I can attest that it actually works now.

Also, remember that you can set your laser batteries and even nose laser cannons to guardian mode, allowing your big guns to help with PD duty. Since armor can take care of the lasers to some extent, as long as you shoot down their projectiles, you're likely to win.

[DWI_Suriil]

Hell they do.
2 PD arc lasers are enough to shot down spam swarm from 3-4 alien ships.
Bassically 2 BC with 2 PD each can now take on 4-6 alien ships and win , if build correctly.

Most of the aliens damage comes from missiles spam. God save PD.

[DWI_Suriil]

Originally posted by VDmitry:

Still uncertain. I'm currently using Monitor class which has up to 4 slots to use for missiles. The better option in that regard is Cruiser with 6 slots. Adding it takes longer to build it's not that big difference.

I've tried using laser weapons on Battle-cruiser but had complete failure as it wasn't able to fire even once (unlike my missile ships do). The enemy dreadnaughts have gun with 450 damage and longer range and NOTHING can survive that.

I don't think I can create yet a cruiser with enough manuerability to avoid such hit. My smaller missile ships can try that though.

Later on you will get few tech and tier 3 ship yards , that will make a construction time difference less and less important. At some point tier 2 ship will cost you 50 days , tier 3 ship (BC) will cost you 75 days. So...what you pick brah?...

Just keep this advice in mind - QUALITY over QUANTITY. You will thank me later.

[corisai]

Originally posted by VDmitry:

I've tried using laser weapons on Battle-cruiser but had complete failure as it wasn't able to fire even once (unlike my missile ships do). The enemy dreadnaughts have gun with 450 damage and longer range and NOTHING can survive that.

You're wrong here. Battleship/Dreadnought with 50 frontal armor, components armor + 240cm nose phasers in PD mode & some dedicated PD is feeling quite safe (hell such ship was even capable to go at almost point blank range to alien mothership).

[corisai]

Originally posted by Fwiffo:

Oh yeah, PDs were buggy to all hell before yesterday.

It wasn't buggy - aliens missiles & shots were much more durable (confirmed by mods to PD systems). Devs simply nerfed aliens and buffed out PD :)

[Veniczar B. Fontana]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Fwiffo:

Oh yeah, PDs were buggy to all hell before yesterday.

It wasn't buggy - aliens missiles & shots were much more durable (confirmed by mods to PD systems). Devs simply nerfed aliens and buffed out PD :)

You sure ? Personnaly the problem was not alien shots surviving PDs, but the PDs not firing at all some times.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Veniczar B. Fontana:

You sure ? Personnaly the problem was not alien shots surviving PDs, but the PDs not firing at all some times.

Yes, it code allowing to shot only when PD capable to actually destroy incoming projectile. Before patch PD damage stats (especially basic laser PD turret) was low while alien missiles & kinetics have high durability.

Mods that boosted PD damage or nerfed alien projectiles - had absolutely same effect as current patch.