My Full RDR2 Review (Not Recommended) ::SPOILERS::

[Hecc]

This is my first discussion post on steam, the primary reason I am posting this is because I spent the time writing my opinions on this game only for steam to tell me I ran out of characters. In an effort to avoid wasting my time here is my full, completely honest review of this game. I understand my opinion will not be a popular one and that is fine. Any discussion spawned from this post may only increase my interest in the game, so those of you that disagree with me, feel free to leave your opinions.

Where to even start with this game I'm not sure, but I'm going to try to articulate the frustration that this game creates for its players. I'm going to try and document my experience chronologically so anyone reading may understand how I have completely lost patience for this game, and do not have any desire to continue playing or even to finish the story, which I don't think is very good at all.

--WARNING STORY SPOILERS--

My first experience with this game was about 2 years ago when I bought it, I attempted to play it but every time I would try it wouldn't even start to run, no Rockstar Games launcher, nothing. So right off the bat I had a bad install, which I dont place blame on devs for, but considering its a 100+ gb game, I really didnt feel like spending 3 hours to reinstall it, so I left it on the backlog for 2 years. Fast forward to about a week and a half ago, I reinstall it, ready for a nice fresh playthrough of a new game. Install is good, load it up, and there is Rockstar games launcher, more problems. This time not with the game, but the Rockstar+Steam combination is utterly agonizing for anyone who has had multiple accounts. If you dont know, once you assign a social club account to a steam account, they are linked forever. You cannot unlink them, and you cannot get support from neither Rockstar nor Steam on the issue. So in my case when my steam account is linked to a 10 year old social club account that is linked to a 20 year old email, issues arise. So steam forces me to login to Rockstar Games Social Club with this decade old account that I don't have info for anymore, now I have to spend 45 minutes cycling through emails and social club logins online trying to get a new password set up for an old account, so I can play a new game. What makes all of this stranger is that I play GTA V on steam but that one forced me into making a new social club account (this was several years ago), which for some reason I was not allowed to use for this game, who ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ knows why. After around 45 minutes of BS I finally get logged into Rockstar Games and the game launches. Here we go.

For the first 20-30 hours I really enjoyed this game, the gunplay was fun, the atmosphere was great, very good graphics that just made it feel all the more real. Authentic wildlife and fauna, the small towns like Valentine were great to start with, really gave that old west feel that everyone always hyped up about this game. The little mini-games and character interactions really started to build the world. Being able to go into the saloon and get a hair cut, take a bath at the townhouse, playing poker/dominoes/5-finger-filet, being able to hunt animals, skin them, and then either take the meat to your camp for provisions or sell the meat at the butcher for cash. The hunting is what consumed me for the first 2 chapters of the game. I really loved seeing all the different species, and the tier system for pelts felt rewarding, using them to craft things at your camp. The introduction of the legendary animals was super cool, being able to take the pelts to trapper for unique clothing and gear. All of this was fun for awhile, but after I hunted most of the legendary animals and got a good amount of perfect pelts, that was it. If you wanted to fully upgrade the camp you need to run around the entire map to find the specific animal you need, and if it was a larger animal you can only get 1 of the pelts at a time before running back. So to fully upgrade the camp you would probably need to run in and out of camp a good 30-40 times, each of those trips taking 15-20 minutes minimum. This wouldn't suck so much if the horseback riding was even somewhat fun.

I mean it when I say genuinely hated riding my horse anywhere. First off they are just slow, especially when 90% of mission objectives are half-way across the map, you have to watch their health and stamina bar along with your own, they are weak as ♥♥♥♥, plus they can buck you off just because there is an animal near. There were several times i was in a full sprint down a trail, and my horse passes a snake in the grass 15 feet away, stops, bucks me off, and runs away. Another time the same thing happened with a cougar, horse could have just sprinted past it like I was telling it to, but nope, dead stop (right next to the cougar) bucks me off, and cougar kills me. Not sure exactly what it is about the mechanics of the game, but it feels like the game thinks it knows better than you, and over controls the horse. Genuinely cannot count the amount of times my horse ran directly into something because i was trying to move it left and the game was making it move right, so my horse just runs directly into ♥♥♥♥, flinging me and whatever you were carrying off. Horse speed is super inconsistent, press A, hold A, tap A, all consistently gave me different speeds throughout my playthrough, no I am not joking. Sometimes the horse follows along the trail you're on, sometimes it doesn't. Many times while using cinematic camera my horse is following the path, or characters in a mission for 75% of the time, then all of a sudden it just keeps going straight, off the path, into the woods, off a mountain most of the time. Mainly because you have to use cinematic camera to skip the long ass rides to every objective, so while you aren't paying attention the game kills you and makes you redo the whole ride again. Trying to shoot on horseback was also insanely inconsistent. Generally if you wanted to talk to an npc you would put your gun away and LT allows you to talk with them, or if its an animal you can study/track it. If you wanted to attack an npc or animal you pull out your gun and LT makes you aim at them, simple distinction. Sometimes though the game just throws that out the window and decides that it needs to ♥♥♥♥ with you. So the npc you were just trying to talk with, now you somehow pulled a gun out and aimed it at them, enjoy the bounty. Or you were riding along with your gun out trying to shoot an animal thats getting away or a running witness, and when you aim the game just needs to make sure thats what you're doing, and adds little button options to talk or study, making you press RT just to lift the gun up (that you were already holding) and then RT again to fire the shot. At no point was there an explanation as to when this occurs, it happens randomly, most often when a witness is getting away, and that split second it takes for me to realize my gun isnt shooting is enough for them to make a brake for it, at which point I get a bounty and need to drop what im doing to run away, otherwise I get killed by lawmen/bounty hunters, or you fight off the lawmen and bounty hunters, just to increase your bounty, so the game can steal money from you.

The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bounty system is probably one of the worst I have seen in a video game. They took the police from GTA and put them in the old west. No matter where you are at, every time you do something illegal, a random npc will spawn out of your vision, and witness the crime, and report you. Dozens of times i have been in the middle of the mountains, swamp, forest, etc, killed someone, and all of a sudden witness reporting from a half a mile away. 30 seconds later a squad of 6 lawmen come riding on horses to take you out, no matter where you are at. Adding on is the fact that you can get a bounty for pretty much ANYTHING. Riding into town too quickly and a person walks in front of you, boom bounty for assault. Playing a dishonorable character, walking by an npc and antagonizing them, boom bounty for disturbing the peace (why give us the option if all it does is cause bounties?) Or my favorite one, the game spawns one of it signature events where two characters are talking/fighting, you simply stand and watch, said npc(s) start to hassle you, start to fight you, you start winning the fight, said npc(s) takes out their gun and starts shooting you, now you shoot back, killing said npc(s) who just assaulted you, boom you get a bounty for murder. This happens about 90% of the time when I interact with any event, so I've just stopped interacting with the extra events. It gets better though, at least in GTA you can just die and boom you're free, not in this game. Your bounty stays until you PAY IT OFF. So all the time you spent grinding pelts, playing poker, doing missions to earn money, all gone, simply for acting as the character the game wants you to be, AN OUTLAW. The point of this game is to be an outlaw, and do ♥♥♥♥♥♥ things, but doing those things gets you a bounty, which stops you from accessing many of the main missions. So being an outlaw in the outlaw game stops you from playing the game.

--CONTINUED--

[Hecc]

--CONTINUED--

Now onto the actual game, as I said before I personally do not understand why people think this game has such an incredible story, it is barely even a story at all. Full disclosure, at the time of this review I haven't finished the story, so you may think I'm missing a crucial part or plot point that gets revealed later on, I don't care. Right now I am at 66% of the story, and I am not invested whatsoever in any of the characters or any of the events of the past, present, or future involving these characters. From the very first cutscene I could tell Dutch was the villain. Egotistical psycho who groomed a bunch of lowlife thieves into thinking he's the smartest most compassionate person, all while he convinces THEM to kill, steal, and pillage for the sake of "the group", which is just them making sure Dutch has what he needs. I generally disliked most of the gang at camp, majority of them are obnoxious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, the few characters that were actually likeable ALL got killed off, yea seriously. ::SPOILER:: Keiran who earned the gangs trust, and was a genuinely good dude, got ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ decapitated and his eyes scooped out, Sean who was a piece of ♥♥♥♥ but he was a funny interesting side character, got ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ domed (during Dutch's plan), Hosea who wasn't a saint but had a clear head and was the voice of reason for the group, got shot (during Dutch's plan), and Lenny, who we probably spent the most time with early on, got shot (during Dutch's plan).

So where I'm at in the story all I have is a group of selfish, psychotic, lowlifes with a complete dependence on "the group" to survive. Everyone always looks to Dutch for a plan to get them out of the mess that Dutch just put them in. These plans always being entirely reliant on the group's errand boy Arthur (that's you). The game starts with us running from Blackwater, because Dutch botched the job and lost 150k. Then we hide out near Valentine after Dutch robs the Cornwall train, because now agents from Blackwater AND Cornwall are after them. They get shot out of Valentine and need to run again, this time to Rhodes. Now Dutch has a genius plan to play both sides of the century long feud between the two most powerful families in the city. This plan goes extremely well, getting Sean killed and Jack (John and Abigail's son) kidnapped! So Dutch decides were all gonna murder one of the families, then we get Jack back from the new psycho that the old psycho gave him to. Now Dutch being the genius that he is decides were going to work with this rich powerful psycho who just kidnapped a child, because "he has a plan". This goes wonderfully and Dutch has us act on some totally not bogus info for a heist, which we then get ambushed by the entire city police force (who would've known?). After barely making it out alive, Dutch is now mad with revenge and has us go and kill the enormously powerful crime boss, who has control of an entire city but somehow gets taken out by a group of lowlifes. Of course though Dutch still has a perfect plan to rob the bank of the city we literally just got shot out of, so back we go because Dutch said so. Oh look another trap! Hosea and Lenny both die in this botched bank robbery. The 4 men left (Dutch, Arthur, Javier, and Bill I think) then decide they're just gonna sneak onto a boat with the money and sail away, ♥♥♥♥ the rest of the crew they left behind. Boom our enormous cruise ship just happens to crash, and all that money we just worked for, the money that Hosea and Lenny died for, at the bottom of the ocean. It was at this point where I genuinely just did not understand the point of this story. 50+ hours of just doing what this guy tells you for absolutely nothing. Half way through the story and Dutch has stolen and lost probably close to $300k. Yet every character is still dead set on following him no matter what. How am I supposed to be invested in the story or the characters when I think every single one of them is a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idiot? I don't care about any of them, nor do I even care about the main character Arthur. Because this game has built him up to be just like the rest of the gang, just does whatever Dutch says. Yes he has his own opinions on stuff and speaks his own feelings, but the game just forces you to do whatever he says anyway. Maybe if the game allowed the player to have some individuality and make decisions for himself, I would care more.

Continuing on with the story it decides to put you on this tropical island in the middle of some random conflict which of course now you have to resolve. This whole section destroyed my urge to play the game. We went from an old west bank robbery, to not even an hour later in gameplay we are now fighting off a warship with cannons on the top of a castle, and fighting off invading infantry from the beach. This was so out of place and unnecessary, took me out of the game completely. This game tries to hammer in immersion and realism adding slow animations to everything, making you cook individual pieces of food and craft individual bullets (yes one at a time, like 6 seconds each), minimal fast travel, making you eat and sleep, etc, and then says ♥♥♥♥ it man the cannon you're gonna take out this Cuban warship real quick. Absurd game design by all means.

You know maybe the story wouldn't be so bad if the gameplay in between all the cutscenes was good, but it isn't. Almost every mission follows this pattern: Meet npc, they ask you to steal something/kill someone, you ride your horse for 10 minutes to location, shoot person/steal thing, ride 10 minutes back to npc. 20+ minutes of traveling for 5-10 minutes maximum of "gameplay". I use gameplay in quotations because there really isn't much you are doing. Shooting is pretty good, feels satisfying when you drop people, but its fun for about 20 minutes. With only 3 legitimate ways to fight enemies: Pistol, Rifle/Repeater/Shotgun, combat gets old very quickly. I've used the same pistol/shotgun/repeater combo the entire game with no increase in difficulty. Guns don't really get better, so no point in buying new ones, that is if the game even lets you. Most guns are locked from purchasing until later on in the game, when you're already used to the old ones and have no need for them anymore.

So if guns aren't worth spending money on, what is? Nothing. Once you have the like 3 upgrades on each of your guns, and the upgrades for your horse, which most people will have in chapter 2 probably, there is nothing else to upgrade. All of the food and medicine you need can be looted, so the only things left to spend money on are cosmetics, gun paint, horse designs, and new clothes. All of which majority of players probably don't care about, myself included. So if after chapter 2 there is nothing to spend money on, why the ♥♥♥♥ do we need it? Literally in the second chapter of the game I had everything I needed, Arthur could have just left the group and went to live in the woods and would have survived perfectly. Why the need to keep robbing and stealing and going through all the trouble of getting the law on us, when the player character has absolutely no use for it? Seems like the way they designed the game completely undermines the entire reasoning or need for the main story.

Putting all of this together, in my time playing this game I have primarily been frustrated, annoyed, and disappointed at everything this game has to offer. Maybe I just think too realistically, or maybe the devs of this game don't think at all. I wish I could have enjoyed this game more, maybe I just missed the hype and couldn't enjoy it properly, but personally I would not recommend this game.

[max]

The fact that you write so much about the story, and analyze Dutch's actions means the story made you care. So it's not bad, you just don't like it, and it's ok.

It does have an incredible story (which you didn't like).
Dutch is a narcissist and a hypocrite. But apparently wasn't always like that, or at least concealed it better in the past behind his charisma. The events you see in the game are the sunset of the gang, Dutch's original ideals and way of life in general that made the forming of such gang possible in the first place. Dutch refuses to settle or go down, and like a cornered animal becomes unpredictable and dangerous. Later, after a loss of a lifelong friend he puts his trust into an even more dangerous person who is a sociopath through and through (Micah).

While you describe his schemes, machinations and psychosis as something annoying or bad in the story, it is what makes his character believable and story feel real. If Dutch was cool headed he would have realized how hopeless the situation is and disbanded the gang after they get of the mountain, or at the latest when the Pinkertons visit Arthur and Jack while they're fishing. At that point they made it plainly clear that they want Dutch and they will not back down (because Cornwall is bankrolling them and won't let them back down after the train robbery).

The game doesn't have a revelation in the form of "I'm your father", so there's no massive plot twist that you're missing. However, there are some revelations, which are not very surprising by the time they happen, and it as it should be.
Arthur and most of the gunmen members of the gang are outlaws of the worst kind. There is no happily ever after for them. At least some of them feel it in their bones and cling to Dutch to save them (for as long as they can). The exception is Arthur, the reason he sticks to Dutch is that Dutch is like a father to Arthur and the closest thing to family that he has left, even though the feeling is not reciprocal anymore.

Long term, only two gunmen members make it out. And my personal opinion, is that one of them shouldn't have Sadie. This is one of the only places where the story falters a little.

PS. High honor Arthur does antagonize some NPCs, or just shoots them. And even gets honor for that.
PPS. Guarma chapter should've been entirely cut or significantly extended. As is, it's the weakest part of the story.

[Hecc]

First off, thank you for the response, always appreciate discussion. Though I would argue that just because I wrote this review doesn't mean I care about the story or the characters, it means I care about the money and time I may consider wasted on this game. I can sort of understand the argument of it being a good story (assuming the forthcoming climax, character realizations, etc.) if it wasn't in video game format. Like explained in the OP the actual gameplay leading up to all these story points was honestly not good and particularly difficult to get through (mentally/willfully). If this story was put about in the form of a non-interactive piece of media like a tv show or movie, I could absolutely see the appeal and reasoning to be considered a good story, but it's not.

The actual gameplay consists of a large group of people putting all of their work onto the player character, while being completely insufferable. Really hard to care about any future personal developments of characters that you don't like. I find it similar to the second half of TLOU II. Nobody wanted to play as Abby, nobody liked her, nobody liked the characters around her, and everyone hated being forced to play in support of characters they don't like; although at least TLOU had slightly better, more enjoyable gameplay and combat. My gripe is that I am finding it very hard to suffer through the repetitive and boring gameplay just to see what the story may or may not offer, especially considering it hasn't offered much up to this point.

Originally posted by max:

The fact that you write so much about the story, and analyze Dutch's actions means the story made you care. So it's not bad, you just don't like it, and it's ok.

It does have an incredible story (which you didn't like).
Dutch is a narcissist and a hypocrite. But apparently wasn't always like that, or at least concealed it better in the past behind his charisma. The events you see in the game are the sunset of the gang, Dutch's original ideals and way of life in general that made the forming of such gang possible in the first place. Dutch refuses to settle or go down, and like a cornered animal becomes unpredictable and dangerous. Later, after a loss of a lifelong friend he puts his trust into an even more dangerous person who is a sociopath through and through (Micah).

While you describe his schemes, machinations and psychosis as something annoying or bad in the story, it is what makes his character believable and story feel real. If Dutch was cool headed he would have realized how hopeless the situation is and disbanded the gang after they get of the mountain, or at the latest when the Pinkertons visit Arthur and Jack while they're fishing. At that point they made it plainly clear that they want Dutch and they will not back down (because Cornwall is bankrolling them and won't let them back down after the train robbery).

The game doesn't have a revelation in the form of "I'm your father", so there's no massive plot twist that you're missing. However, there are some revelations, which are not very surprising by the time they happen, and it as it should be.
Arthur and most of the gunmen members of the gang are outlaws of the worst kind. There is no happily ever after for them. At least some of them feel it in their bones and cling to Dutch to save them (for as long as they can). The exception is Arthur, the reason he sticks to Dutch is that Dutch is like a father to Arthur and the closest thing to family that he has left, even though the feeling is not reciprocal anymore.

Long term, only two gunmen members make it out. And my personal opinion, is that one of them shouldn't have Sadie. This is one of the only places where the story falters a little.

PS. High honor Arthur does antagonize some NPCs, or just shoots them. And even gets honor for that.
PPS. Guarma chapter should've been entirely cut or significantly extended. As is, it's the weakest part of the story.

[max]

It is a slow game, and that's the main reason it's not for everyone.
Though I think the pace is right. I can't imagine how this kind of story can be told in a fast paced game and retain its impact.
Note, there is fast travel in the game (which is hidden) which can hasten the game by a LOT. All things outside main story are optional. Though there are several strangers that advance the character development significantly, and missing them means missing important parts of the story. Unfortunately, the game doesn't telegraph this well and in a couple of cases even completely hides the stranger encounters.
I won't contest the point that the gameplay is outdated. And I didn't do much of the sandbox part of the game (hunting, fishing, robing outside of story), but many people say it's good, so it can't be all bad.

[Poliut]

You're on the Railroad Express for most of the story, and in some parts it's obvious. The world I kinda had a hard time settling into given that all on-map places are fake while every off-map location is real, leaving me to wonder where exactly the map is supposed to be in the world (sometimes it works well, a lot of times it doesn't). Wandering around it and exploring it is nice, all the side activities are nice to do.
I also have more attachment to my RDO character than I do Arthur or John (despite having the social skills of Link, among other things).

[Hecc]

I don't think there is a pacing issue, I just think Rockstar is bad at designing missions. Every mission has a group of outlaws going somewhere, usually making Arthur drive them there if going in a coach, boat, etc,. They're going to go rob someone because of some plan one of them had, you get there and things go bad (about 90% of the time), fight off the law/O'Driscols/whoever, then either ride back or the mission just ends. Yea I get the main point of the game is to just rob people and be an outlaw, but unless I'm missing something very big, money is pretty much pointless in this game. about $1000 gets you all the gun and horse upgrades you need, then there is no point in doing any of the caravan robberies, store robberies, homestead robberies, etc. Makes the whole game just seem pointless. At least GTA had cool guns and cars to buy after the game was over. All the guns and horses feel the same in this game.

[max]

Yes, money is useless in the game. You get so much of it that you have nothing to spend it on (even after all camp upgrades).
On the other hand, finding perfect pelts is very time consuming. There are rewards for them, but lets put it this way, I didn't like the clothing from the trapper. I suppose you do it only if you like the hunting activity.

On mission variety, there are many types of missions. Not just regular outlaw stuff. Being an outlaw in a gang will require many outlaw type of missions, but there are others too. Also, even outlaw missions have variation in them it's not just ride -> shoot -> ride.