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Mr. M Mythic has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 5:25am

So Rockstar has finally done it...

They finally locked SKILLS and UPGRADES behind an outlaw pass. Missable skills and upgrades... yikes.

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Originally posted by Lex47:

In all honesty, I am astonished that some people here find arguments to justify Rockstar putting gameplay features and player progression items behind time-limited outlaw pass.

"It's just ammo pouches for useless ammo and fast travel from wilderness camp, nothing too serious"... Well, it's a precedent. Next time, or the time after next, it WILL be something serious. If you are okay with them robbing future, post-outlaw-pass-4 players (or players who, for whatever reason, have no option of paying 40 gold for the pass) of "small and insignificant upgrades", then it's inevitable that in time it stops being small and insignificant. Even most f2p games (ones that are decent, anyway) try to avoid blatantly locking people out of content that affects gameplay if they don't pay up.

So yes, Outlaw Pass from now on is not only about cosmetics and bragging rights items. Not about comfort. It's about having players pay to remain equal to those, who can pay. This time it's useless ammo pouch and things that bring minor comforts. Later it might be (and probably will) be extra express or explosive rounds. Then - who knows what.

It's not okay if they start with small things that are easy to justify. It's not okay at all.

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Showing 1-15 of 112 comments

JACKSin Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:16am

I'm with Rawfire but I can see the problem. Just like PC users don't have access to anything from OP1, and new players don't have access to anything from OP2, 3 or the Halloween pass, future users won't have access to OP4 and its game balance upgrades. P2W. Bad form from Rockstar but the game is also not especially competitive.

Last edited by JACKSin; Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:17am

KroniKx187 has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:28am

Originally posted by Faith:
I'm with Rawfire but I can see the problem. Just like PC users don't have access to anything from OP1, and new players don't have access to anything from OP2, 3 or the Halloween pass, future users won't have access to OP4 and its game balance upgrades. P2W. Bad form from Rockstar but the game is also not especially competitive.

But everything in the outlaw pass is purely cosmetic, there are no skills / upgrades unlocked through the outlaw pass, all skills and upgrades are earned through the roles & levels 1 -100, and those are separate to any outlaw pass. I think the only "skill/upgrade in the pass is the fast travel from wilderness camp, and to be honest, I hardly use the wilderness camp as your food doesn't expire so having to hunt and cook on the run isn't a necessity really. It's still far from P2W.

Ludicrous_Speed has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:32am

Originally posted by Rawfire:
If you purchase it before Dec 7 you get all your gold back. I don't see the problem here

You get your gold back, and then you're tasked with grinding out the pass. And for anyone who doesn't grind it out, or pay up, before it ends, loses out on these upgrades and skills.

This isn't a free to play game, that battlepass crap should be limited to cosmetics. Hell, most free to play games have the foresight to do that anyways. Frankly this game shouldn't have these passes to begin with, give that until a few days ago it costed $60, but this is Rockstar we're talking about.

Last edited by Ludicrous_Speed; Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:34am

KroniKx187 has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:35am

Originally posted by Ludicrous Speed:
Originally posted by Rawfire:
If you purchase it before Dec 7 you get all your gold back. I don't see the problem here
You get your gold back, and then you're tasked with grinding out the pass. And for anyone who doesn't grind it out, or pay up, before it ends, loses out on these upgrades and skills.

This isn't a free to play game, that battlepass crap should be limited to cosmetics. Hell, most free to play games have the foresight to do that anyways. To be completed honest, I'd rather not have one of these passes in the game to begin with given that until a few days ago it was $60, but this is Rockstar we're talking about.

Can you tell me exactly what skill/upgrades you are referring to that are "locked" behind the Outlaw pass?

Ludicrous_Speed has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:40am

Originally posted by KroniKx187:
Originally posted by Ludicrous Speed:
You get your gold back, and then you're tasked with grinding out the pass. And for anyone who doesn't grind it out, or pay up, before it ends, loses out on these upgrades and skills.

This isn't a free to play game, that battlepass crap should be limited to cosmetics. Hell, most free to play games have the foresight to do that anyways. To be completed honest, I'd rather not have one of these passes in the game to begin with given that until a few days ago it was $60, but this is Rockstar we're talking about.
Can you tell me exactly what skill/upgrades you are referring to that are "locked" behind the Outlaw pass?

Spend 5 minutes looking through the clubrewards tab on Rockstar's website. Ammo capacity upgrades, efficient cooking, XP boosts, and then all the filler resources they use to pad out the pass. Half this crap isn't even cosmetic, it's provisions and ingredients.

Last edited by Ludicrous_Speed; Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:42am

JACKSin Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:42am

I thought there was extra ammo and stuff but I don't really care. I would emphasize that I don't consider the game competitive, as in for pro gaming, so p2w or not it doesn't really matter in the end.

Ludicrous_Speed has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:44am

Originally posted by Faith:
I thought there was extra ammo and stuff but I don't really care. I would emphasize that I don't consider the game competitive, as in for pro gaming, so p2w or not it doesn't really matter in the end.

I don't either, but competitive isn't the only reason to not charge for gameplay changes. The fact that XP, money, gold rewards are down across the board now that they dropped the price to $5 is a perfect example of that, player experience still suffers even if it's PvE or non/competitive.

They pad out every imaginable thing to incentivize buying this crap, but so long as they don't go over the deep end people always say "well, I may have spent my entire day farming pelts just to get a reasonable amount of money, but at least it doesn't take even longer!" like this should even be a grinding game in the first place.

Last edited by Ludicrous_Speed; Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:47am

JACKSin Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:47am

Then I would emphasize secondly that I called it bad form on Rockstar's part. I think we're in agreement.

KroniKx187 has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:52am

Did a break down of what is in the Outlaw pass:
Cloth Wrap - Scarlet (R1) - Cosmetic

Inquisitive - Walking Style (R5) - Cosmetic

RDO $50 (R3) - Bonus

Bison Backdrop (R8) - Cosmetic

Inquisitive - Walking Style (R5) - Cosmetic

Cloth Wrap - Indigo (R16) - Cosmetic

Provision Parcel (R12) - Bonus

Outpour emote (R25) - Cosmetic

The Duo flag (R19) - Cosmetic

Dawn Elk Photograph (R32) - Cosmetic

Ammo Parcel (R28) - Bonus

Gun Care Parcel (R37) - Bonus

Ammo Parcel (R45) - Bonus

Kill Cam Filter (R41) - Cosmetic - Cosmetic

Ability Card (R49) - Bonus (can be attained normally)

RDO$100 (R58) - Bonus

Ammo Parcel (R54) - Bonus

Naturalist Photograph Moonshine Shack decor (R69) - Cosmetic

Ammo Parcel (R64) - Bonus

Sunset Mare Flag (R80) - Cosmetic

Provisions Parcel (R74) - Bonus

Ammo Parcel (R85) - Bonus

Cloth Wrap - Amethyst (R93) - Cosmetic

Ammo Parcel (R89) - Bonus

Estevez Gun Belt & Holster (R100) - Cosmetic

Stallion Backdrop (R98) - Cosmetic

15% Role XP Boost (R1) - Bonus

Entertainers Pose Posse Portrait (R3) - Cosmetic

Efficient Cooking (R2) - Maybe a skill, but not necessary to progress in game

Lucky Hat (R4) - Cosmetic

Ammo Parcel (R6) - Bonus

3 Gold Bars (R5) - Bonus

Longarm Metal Change (R8) - Cosmetic

Clam Juice Flag (R7) - Cosmetic

Falls Photograph (R10) - Cosmetic

Horse Care Parcel (R9) - Bonus

Provisions Parcel (R12) - Bonus

Wild Tail - Tan & White (R11) - Cosmetic

Horse Mustache (R14) - Cosmetic

Select Bounty Hunter Role Items - 40% off (R13) - Bonus

Emerald Ranch Photograph (R16) - Cosmetic

Loose Mane (R15) - Cosmetic

Ingredients Parcel (R18) - Bonus

Blue Pass Filter (R17) - Cosmetic

Garden photo backdrop (R20) - Cosmetic

25 Trader Goods (R19) - Bonus

Ammo Parcel (R22) - Bonus

Sage Polka Dot Wrap (R21) - Cosmetic

3 Gold Bars (R24) - Bonus

RDO$50 (R26) - Bonus

Crates Pose (R23) - Cosmetic

Loose Mane - Tane & White (R27) - Cosmetic

Twohorn Buckle (R25) - Cosmetic

Select Multi-Class Horses - 40% off (R29) - Bonus

Collectibles Parcel (R28) - Bonus

Frayed Mane - Black & White (R31) - Cosmetic

25% Role XP Boost (R30) - Bonus

Fest flag (R33) - Cosmetic

Longarm Metal Change (R32) - Cosmetic

Lowden Chaps (R35) - Cosmetic

Horse Care Parcel (R34) - Bonus

Select Boots - 50% off (R37) - Bonus

Cloth Wrap - Magenta (R36) - Cosmetic

Wild Tail - Black & White (R39) - Cosmetic

Irontooth Mask (R38) - Cosmetic

Mash Refill (R41) - Bonus

3 Gold Bars (R40) - Bonus

Ammo Pouch Upgrade - Shotgun (R43) - Bonus, only upgrades regular ammo count... which no one uses

Collectibles Parcel (R42) - Bonus

Gelatin flag (R45) - Cosmetic

Cloth Wrap - Amber (R44) - Cosmetic

200 Sedative Varmint Cartridges (R47) - Bonus

Beckon emote (R46) - Cosmetic

Moonshine Ingredients Parcel (R49) - Bonus

Frayed Mane - White & Auburn (R48) - Cosmetic

Hunting Cougar photograph (R51) - Cosmetic

Splithair Buckle (R50) - Cosmetic

Injured Filter (R53) - Cosmetic

Loose Mane - White & Black (R52) - Cosmetic

3 Gold Bars (R55) - Bonus

Select Hats - Free (R54) - Cosmetic

Baltz flag (R57) - Cosmetic

5 Legendary Animal Pheromones (R56) - Bonus

Wild Tail - White & Auburn (R59) - Cosmetic

Idea emote (R58) - Cosmetic

Sleek Mane - Black & White (R61) - Cosmetic

Ammo Pouch Upgrade - Rifle (R60) - Bonus, only upgrades regular ammo count... which no one uses

Select Role Items - Free (R63) - Cosmetic

Dead Eye Filter (R62) - Cosmetic

30% Role XP Boost (R65) - Bonus

Cloth Wrap - Emerald (R64) - Cosmetic

Washwood Fur Coat (R67) - Cosmetic

Ability Card Upgrade (R66) - Bonus

Yellow Pass Filter (R69) - Cosmetic

Recover Agent's Pose (R68) - Cosmetic

Sleek Mane - White & Black (R71) - Cosmetic

3 Gold Bars (R70) - Bonus

Cloth Wrap - White (R73) - Cosmetic

Select Coats - Free (R72) - Cosmetic

Rattletail Buckle (R75) - Cosmetic

Oscroft Gloves (R74) - Cosmetic

3 Gold Bars (R77) - Bonus

Bar Decor - 5 Gold off (R76) - Bonus

Wild Tail - Auburn & White (R79) - Cosmetic

Cuckoo Emote (R78) - Cosmetic

Bleach Bypass Filter (R81) - Cosmetic

Mystery Reward (R80) - Unkown yet

Collectibles Parcel (R83) - Bonus

3 Gold Bars (R82) - Bonus

Gable Charm (R85) - Cosmetic

Ammo Pouch Upgrade - Pistol (R84) - Bonus, only upgrades regular ammo count... which no one uses

Banjo Band Pose (R87) - Cosmetic

Select Ponchos - Free (R86) - Cosmetic

3 Gold Bars (R89) - Bonus

Sleek Mane - White & Auburn (R88) - Cosmetic

Best Shot emote (R91) - Cosmetic

Husky - Red (R90) - Cosmetic

3 Gold Bars (R93) - Bonus

Horse Mustache - Curled (R92) - Cosmetic

Select Role Items - Free (R95) - Cosmetic

Treasure Map - North Ridgewood (R94)- Bonus

Wilderness Travel (R97) - Maybe a skill, but not necessary to progress in game

Mystery Reward (R96) - Unkown yet

3 Gold Bars (R99) - Bonus

Russet Tartan Wrap (R98) - Cosmetic

The Morment outfit (R100) - Cosmetic

Brokenhoof Buckle (R100) - Cosmetic

Ludicrous_Speed has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:55am

Originally posted by KroniKx187:
Did a break down of what is in the Outlaw pass:
snip

"Which nobody uses"

Excluding anyone who doesn't like wasting money on ammo that is rarely necessary, which is likely most people. You're just trying to excuse these things, but it doesn't change that they are gameplay effecting changes locked behind a paywall.

Granted, I'm sure this pass will look like the second coming of christ in a few years when Rockstar takes off the training wheels and really starts to nickel and dime this game, if they don't abandon it by then.

Last edited by Ludicrous_Speed; Dec 4, 2020 @ 7:00am

#10

Red_Plague has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:55am

Originally posted by Rawfire:
If you purchase it before Dec 7 you get all your gold back. I don't see the problem here

Ppl who bought the game recently don't have that gold - no problem there?
And there will definitely be ones who buys the game AFTER the pass ends - still no problem?

#11

Red_Plague has Red Dead Redemption 2

Dec 4, 2020 @ 6:57am

Originally posted by Faith:
I'm with Rawfire but I can see the problem. Just like PC users don't have access to anything from OP1, and new players don't have access to anything from OP2, 3 or the Halloween pass, future users won't have access to OP4 and its game balance upgrades. P2W. Bad form from Rockstar but the game is also not especially competitive.

Yeah. I'm a bit annoyed by not being able to obtain the ONLY belt for pants in the game which was in OP.

#12

JACKSin Dec 4, 2020 @ 7:10am

Originally posted by Red_Plague:
the ONLY belt for pants

What? A belt for pants? How does that work with the holster. Actually, I'll just look it up; there's probably a video somewhere.

I'll give Kronik and A for effort. I got about halfway through that. If Rockstar was a woman I'd slam it, too. It's like any other relationship; it has its ups and its downs.

Have fun everyone.

Last edited by JACKSin; Dec 4, 2020 @ 7:12am

#13

JACKSin Dec 4, 2020 @ 7:44am

I wonder what time it is where you're at. Do you wake up like this? I'm on probably a lot better than you about. That's what I'm on about. Gimme a break, guy.

#14