Ridiculous amounts of Cheaters in RDO?

[pRaX]

The amount of cheaters in RDO is actually staggering and saddening.

I've set everything up to free-aim and I'm a M&KB player because I'm not a fan of playing any kind of shooter'esque game with a controller and especially not with the ridiculous built-in aimbot the game has.

From what I know, the way I've set it up, I should only connect to people who've set their game to free-aim aswell. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyways... let's come to the juice.

I've just left the Trader event (the one with the Train) and could only barely get any kills. Mostly due to the enemies not even being visible on my end yet but half the people on the train kept blasting into thick fog and killing 90% of waves before I could even see them which seemed extremely odd to me.

At first I assumed it's just lag and they simply see them before I do on their client or they do not have any fog and ignored it but also gave up and stopped wasting ammo.

While looking around I suddenly realized that over half of these people were doing split second 180°s. If they weren're careful, they'd lift off like a helicopter.

And no, not talking about when people were using Dead-eye which you can see on the minimap.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that the free-aim setting doesn't matter for this PvE event I again ignored it and assumed it's just gamepad warriors with their auto-aim.

Sadly I had to realize that all these people were actually in my lobby when the Event finished...

Just sad....

I almost have more respect for the ragehackers because they are at least, to a degree, honest about it since they're obviously not hiding it.

I mean, I don't care for the arcady/console'ish PvP anyway but... damn... my condolences for the people who are legit and do.

[felmari]

tnt seems popular and ufo is in like gtao i have also seen them teleport everyone in server to one spot and teleport themselves as well as speed running.

[Soren]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gavener:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

In 60 or so hours of RDO, which I know for a lot of you is a small amount of hours, I have only encountered one obvious hacker and he didn't even kill me just ran in circles around me at like 80 mph. I hear that a lot of your experiences are different I just do not know why,

Only really only once was messed with in my 30 hours random TnT hitting me out of know where, People say people are cheating in towns i'm in mainly because they can't kill them

Console player here. I can't say for certain, but the explosives might have been caused by dynamite arrows or explosive ammo (depending on the type of explosion you experienced). Both are relatively high level unlocks that are used to troll PVP and take no real skill (just resources to grind the ammo type back).

Towns also have some select safezones. It could certainly have been cheaters with godmode. No denying that (or a rare networking bug I once encountered that stops specific people from harming another with bullets exclusively while melee still works). But I'd still like to point out certain shops/areas have safezones and newer players could confuse this for cheating if someone is purposely trying to ride a safezone as much as possible.

[samcharles77]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gavener:

Ya at random I started blowing up like TnT was thrown at my no one in sight but those signs of Rockstar messages in [ ] crap I knew one was about, i just left the server, hate you have to leave the game and cant go to a lobby

You can jump to a new lobby without exiting the game. I can't remember the exact path but you need to find the menu that lets you choose online then select free roam.

[pRaX]

Interesting to see that, seemingly, many don't care as long as they don't get bothered by them.

[Gavener]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von samcharles77:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gavener:

Ya at random I started blowing up like TnT was thrown at my no one in sight but those signs of Rockstar messages in [ ] crap I knew one was about, i just left the server, hate you have to leave the game and cant go to a lobby

You can jump to a new lobby without exiting the game. I can't remember the exact path but you need to find the menu that lets you choose online then select free roam.

Just found that out as well, by going "online" thank you

[Corbae]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

In 60 or so hours of RDO, which I know for a lot of you is a small amount of hours, I have only encountered one obvious hacker and he didn't even kill me just ran in circles around me at like 80 mph. I hear that a lot of your experiences are different I just do not know why,

Well I can say now I have encountered my second and wow that was annoying. Kept spawning lions and cages and bombs on me.

[Peejayy]

Sounds like they're making their own fun since there's no real content in RDO xd

[Adrien H Wallace]

I love how people say, "I have only been blown up twice in 60 hours of game play." or similar phrases. As if getting blown up even once is okay by you.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer a quality game where I am not even blown up a single time.

[Soren]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Adrien H Wallace:

I love how people say, "I have only been blown up twice in 60 hours of game play." or similar phrases. As if getting blown up even once is okay by you.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer a quality game where I am not even blown up a single time.

Being blown up can happen naturally in the game. Dynamite arrows can see to that.

Granted, I've seen people post cheater footage and I did find it disgusting. Like, 100% obviously a cheater type footage. I'm lucky such a thing doesn't really exist on xbox 1 on PS4. But you also do pay the 60$ a year so stuff like that isn't supposed to happen.

[Corbae]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Adrien H Wallace:

I love how people say, "I have only been blown up twice in 60 hours of game play." or similar phrases. As if getting blown up even once is okay by you.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer a quality game where I am not even blown up a single time.

Are you kidding me? Name me all the multi-player games that have zero modders, hackers, or exploiters. Go to any forum for any multi-player game and you will see the same shrill whining as you just posted. How far up your ass does your head have to be to believe that any game company will ever be able to get rid of the scum that is cheaters, at least with the current technology that is available. .

[Soren]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

Are you kidding me? Name me all the multi-player games that have zero modders, hackers, or exploiters. Go to any forum for any multi-player game and you will see the same shrill whining as you just posted. How far up your ass does your head have to be to believe that any game company will ever be able to get rid of the scum that is cheaters, at least with the current technology that is available. .

I would like to note just because an activity is seemingly impossible to outright stop, does not mean a company should not try to deter it as much as possible. A service having only 10 cheaters is better than it having 10,000 cheaters.

I for one would be happy if Rockstar moderated and banned cheaters quicker and more often on their service (because I think that's good for consumers). We know this is possible because human moderation isn't a new technology or method. Current gen consoles are generally more cheat free because the platforms holders themselves moderate against cheaters (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all moderate their platform even when individual publishers don't). On the other hand, it costs money to moderate, and neither Rockstar or Valve are willing to pay too much into that.

[pRaX]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von BK201Soren:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

Are you kidding me? Name me all the multi-player games that have zero modders, hackers, or exploiters. Go to any forum for any multi-player game and you will see the same shrill whining as you just posted. How far up your ass does your head have to be to believe that any game company will ever be able to get rid of the scum that is cheaters, at least with the current technology that is available. .

I would like to note just because an activity is seemingly impossible to outright stop, does not mean a company should not try to deter it as much as possible. A service having only 10 cheaters is better than it having 10,000 cheaters.

I for one would be happy if Rockstar moderated and banned cheaters quicker and more often on their service (because I think that's good for consumers). We know this is possible because human moderation isn't a new technology or method. Current gen consoles are generally more cheat free because the platforms holders themselves moderate against cheaters (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all moderate their platform even when individual publishers don't). On the other hand, it costs money to moderate, and neither Rockstar or Valve are willing to pay too much into that.

Cheaters are also very lucrative nowadays. That business is booming.
With mediocre anti cheat, you ban some/lots and they'll buy the game again to keep on cheating.
If you had absolutely perfect or very effective anti-cheat, way less of them would re-buy the game.

Just some food for thought in context that we have to remember that we're talking about businesses here.
They aren't our friend's. They want to be friends with our wallets.

[Corbae]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von BK201Soren:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

Are you kidding me? Name me all the multi-player games that have zero modders, hackers, or exploiters. Go to any forum for any multi-player game and you will see the same shrill whining as you just posted. How far up your ass does your head have to be to believe that any game company will ever be able to get rid of the scum that is cheaters, at least with the current technology that is available. .

I would like to note just because an activity is seemingly impossible to outright stop, does not mean a company should not try to deter it as much as possible. A service having only 10 cheaters is better than it having 10,000 cheaters.

I for one would be happy if Rockstar moderated and banned cheaters quicker and more often on their service (because I think that's good for consumers). We know this is possible because human moderation isn't a new technology or method. Current gen consoles are generally more cheat free because the platforms holders themselves moderate against cheaters (Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all moderate their platform even when individual publishers don't). On the other hand, it costs money to moderate, and neither Rockstar or Valve are willing to pay too much into that.

I would be happy too if they got rid of all the cheaters. So? You say we know it is possible, I actually do not know that as I have never seen it happen, you have not either. Every single popular multi-player ever has had to deal with this. Every single one. No one has come up with a good solution. You can ban thousands and they just come back. I am not saying that devs shouldn't try but we have seen all sorts of attempts. From new improved anti-cheat software (which gamers freak out about because of the fear of data collection or some other such nonsense), suing the makers of modding software, having the community get involved (like CS:GO and others), or as you said moderate servers (which has never worked as it would not be feasible). Consoles are not free of cheaters, or mostly so, because of moderation. It is the platform. You have to physically change the hardware inside most of the time which in turn will brick your console eventually, most people are not willing or able to take a soldering iron to their console.

You were originally saying that one cheater is to many and warrants a backlash from the community. That was mostly what I was replying but either way you sound naive.

[pRaX]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

Consoles are not free of cheaters, or mostly so, because of moderation. It is the platform. You have to physically change the hardware inside most of the time which in turn will brick your console eventually, most people are not willing or able to take a soldering iron to their console.

And they usually lack the brain capacity or are too lazy. Talking about the ones who buy them ofc. Not their creators.

There is other ways though aswell nowadays.
When they started integrating USB ports, stuff got alot easier for all kinds of shenanigans.
Still, compared to PC, it's rather negligible.

[Soren]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

I would be happy too if they got rid of all the cheaters. So? You say we know it is possible, I actually do not know that as I have never seen it happen, you have not either. Every single popular multi-player ever has had to deal with this. Every single one. No one has come up with a good solution. You can ban thousands and they just come back.

I did in fact not say getting rid of cheating is entirely possible. But I suggested the lack of ability to do something completely should not stop them from as much harm reduction as possible. Hackers, cheaters, and bug abusers are bad and always a reality, but their numbers can always be reduced more by certain actions.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

I am not saying that devs shouldn't try but we have seen all sorts of attempts. From new improved anti-cheat software (which gamers freak out about because of the fear of data collection or some other such nonsense), suing the makers of modding software, having the community get involved (like CS:GO and others), or as you said moderate servers (which has never worked as it would not be feasible).

The human moderation at the end of the day is the most feasible solution. And xbox live is proof of that. Not just with cheaters, xbox live heavily moderated user interaction and banned for hate speech, now there is much less of that these days back when it used to be in literally almost every game lobby.

I'd say it works the best out of all the solutions, but it's also the most expensive long term out of any of the solutions (which is why most companies do not heavily rely on it). The trade off here is Microsoft and Sony can afford human moderation mostly because the xbox live gold and PSN+ memberships. 50$ a year for online is unthinkable to most PC gamers, but would they pay that if it reduced the number of cheaters they play against by 98%?

Fun fact, I used to play a lot of TF2. I got pretty mad at Valve because they don't even accept reports on cheaters. So I'd often play against rage cheating aimbots (a super obvious kind of aimbot) and these accounts would have 5,000+ hours played in the game and thousands of dollars worth in goods on their account. I'd run across these same players about a few times every year. I would always laugh when a rare one these cheaters accidentally ran across a Valve employee once in a blue moon, because that meant they actually got a manual VAC ban and this essentially made their $1,000+ worth of steam items turn into a paper weight. Why couldn't Valve do this more? Pay people to just roam their game servers and ban rage cheaters or at least take a look at human reports here and there so accounts can never accrue 5,000 hours before being banned.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

Consoles are not free of cheaters, or mostly so, because of moderation. It is the platform. You have to physically change the hardware inside most of the time which in turn will brick your console eventually, most people are not willing or able to take a soldering iron to their console.

The platform itself can be a deterrent. The hardware being newer and harder to jail break being the biggest reason. Rather than soldering being the lowest common denominator here. Take a look at the xbox 360. You need to solder it to j-tag it I believe. Microsoft no longer moderates it, and I'd dare say a game like Black Ops 2 has more cheaters than most any PC game you would play today (except some free to play games). J-tagging isn't stopping people from cheating on the 360. And the fact that Microsoft has abandoned human moderation on the 360 is the biggest factor as too why the cheater population is so high now.

On the other hand, the xbox 1 doesn't even have people shouting the n-word most anywhere. Why? Because that'd get you a soft ban and cost you a new gamertag ($50 for new online membership) at the least, and at the most it'd cost you a whole new xbox 1 console if they ID banned you. Now, you could probably solder on a new console ID I bet for xbox 1 (like people used to do for the 360), but the online membership is still costly and the xbox live enforcement team would probably catch you anyway (because you don't know their detection methods since they rely so heavily on human moderation). If you rely solely on anti-cheat, people are always going to learn of your detection methods and eventually circumvent your anti-cheat to the point of it being useless. But they can never circumvent or guarantee learning how to avoid human detection.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sparrow:

You were originally saying that one cheater is to many and warrants a backlash from the community. That was mostly what I was replying but either way you sound naive.

Haven't I been saying the total opposite? It's not that even 1 cheater is too many, rather you can always work to reduce more cheaters if you try hard enough (are willing to spend money as a company). Valve updated their Valve Anti-Cheat a while back (which costs money to hire someone to do), and suddenly a massive ban wave hit TF2 for anyone using lolbox (not the real name of the hack, but you probably know what I mean).

30,000 people banned in an instant, and no one could use lolbox for weeks without getting banned in no time. This ban wave was so massive because people were so used to Valve doing literally nothing against cheaters for years. Think about how much further Valve could go if they wanted. Instead, they've abandoned TF2 and now cheaters make up approximately 5% of the audience (meaning usually at least 1 in every game). Which is at least 5 times worse than what it used to be 5 years ago.