Why no DX11?

[Iggy Wolf]

Seems to me a lot of issues surrounding crashes are tied to the APIs. Vulkan seems to be more stable and less crash prone than DX12, but that doesn't change the fact that DX11 isn't offered as a choice as well. Especially since we can be almost absolutely sure that the console version ran on DX11 (if not Vulkan). These two APIs are relatively new, and haven't been as extensively tested as DX11. But from my perspective, there's nothing in the new APIs that isn't on DX11. Most of the settings in the graphics options are available on DX11 (Tessellation, SSAO, etc.).

Seems to me that if they had offered it as an option, there'd be less complaints about crashes. I remember Hitman having issues with DX12 as well, especially on RTX cards, and how it would cause crashes, but DX11 NEVER crashed for me. Hell, even Resident Evil 2 Remake offers DX11, which seems to be more stable than DX12 anyway. It sickens me to think this was Nvidia's attempt to push people to buy RTX cards and force people to adopt DX12, and so they paid Rockstar NOT to include DX11. As far as I can tell, there's NOTHING to suggest it couldn't run on DX11.

[_Atr4Mør5]

Consoles used its self apis. Also would be better if Rockstar added DX11 too.
Also I heared that DX12 in RDR2 it's just a wrapper.

[Scar]

Because we're in 2019, Vulcan is doing fine, but they definetly need to fix DX12

[Black Raven]

Because if they did dx11 it would be visually inferior to even the consoles, and would require even more work on dev time.

DX11 is the past, Vulkan is now on every platform, DX12 need more work, but should prob be phased out for Vulkan as its not on every platform, or be redesigned to work on all platforms like Vulkan (but that be DX13 then i guess)

[.DefaltBR]

Vulkan is fine, despite causing more artifacts than DirectX12, it's the best option for 60 fps, but WILL stutter and feel "jumpy" if fps is around 30~40... On the other hand, DirectX12 may not reach 60fps where Vulkan does but it actually delivers a solid 30fps experience, with absolutely NO stutter at all, and the game feels pretty smooth even for 30fps... While 30fps with Vulkan looks like garbage and stutters all over the place even locking the fps and frametime with riva tuner and enabling vsync (half sync) it feels horrible and unplayable, so if you're playing with a controller, i'd recommend giving a try to DirectX12 @30fps so you can turn your graphics settings higher, with a few options on ultra, a lot on high, and some in medium, and you'll get rock solid frametime and the game will play out just fine, believe me, i have 200+ hours of playtime... I'm more of a kb+mouse guy and i rarelly use controller , but for RDR2 it's really worth it.

[😎Astran😾]

I have DX11 card and it's fine. Crashes happen when you enable Vulcan.

[SIX]

Originally posted by Black Raven:

Because if they did dx11 it would be visually inferior to even the consoles, and would require even more work on dev time.

DX11 is the past, Vulkan is now on every platform, DX12 need more work, but should prob be phased out for Vulkan as its not on every platform, or be redesigned to work on all platforms like Vulkan (but that be DX13 then i guess)

Total lie graphic quality is not tied to the API and most game in 2019 use DX11 with a few having DX12 supported as well.

[Iggy Wolf]

*sighs* Some of the posters on here completely missed the point of my post. It's NOT a matter of performance. I get an average of 45-60 FPS. That's NOT my problem. My issue is that the APIs, as they are now, are currently unstable and have crashes REGARDLESS of whether you're playing on Vulkan or DX12. I mention DX11 because it's more stable as an API, having been more thoroughly developed over the years and not new anymore. Read the actual post instead of assuming it's anything to do with performance or stuttering.

[gpolg]

well if it were dx11 you would need much stronger cpu, and we'd probably see even 9900K bottlenecking 2080ti same as with hitman 2 or asscreed....
with dx11 most people would have cpu bottleneck, because its very cpu inefficient...

dx11 is dead and burried in 2019. no rtx, no multithreading

[Iggy Wolf]

Originally posted by gpolig:

well if it were dx11 you would need much stronger cpu, and we'd probably see even 9900K bottlenecking 2080ti same as with hitman 2 or asscreed....
with dx11 most people would have cpu bottleneck, because its very cpu inefficient...

dx11 is dead and burried in 2019. no rtx, no multithreading

Funny, cause I had WORSE performance with DX12 on Hitman than DX11. Those games are CPU limited regardless of API. There's no connection. They have "Level of Detail" which determines how much detail is drawn out in the distance, and THAT'S what caused CPU bottlenecks.

I know, cause performance for me on Hitman 2 is the same regardless of DX11 or 12. In fact, before a patch, it crashed for me on DX12 with RTX cards. And Assassin's Creed Odyssey is just more CPU hungry than RDR2, just like Hitman. In fact, Hitman has specific simulation settings that take advantage of more cores, so that game was meant to use more CPU. Bad comparison in general.

[gpolg]

Originally posted by Iggy Wolf:

[q
Funny, cause I had WORSE performance with DX12 on Hitman than DX11. Those games are CPU limited regardless of API.

lol let me guess you have a 9 or 10 series NV.

As for cpu limited, no not at all, rdr2 isnt cpu limited, not at all,
nor any other vulkan or DX 12 game...
reason you had same fps with dx 11&12 is that your gpu is weak
and cpu can drive it too 100% without trying hard...
you can check cpu usage on marakesh on Hitman 1 or 2 eg or Mumbai.
On dx12 you have much better utilization
2080ti bottlenecked on marakesh with 9900 @DX11.
as for ACO its cpu hungry because its dx11. Had it been dx12 it wouldnt be an issue.

its simple really, dx 12 vulkan can use all cores/ threads. dx11 has huge overheads and not great multicore...

[Iggy Wolf]

Originally posted by gpolig:

Originally posted by Iggy Wolf:

[q
Funny, cause I had WORSE performance with DX12 on Hitman than DX11. Those games are CPU limited regardless of API.

lol let me guess you have a 9 or 10 series NV.

As fro cpu limited, no not at all, rdr2 isnt cpu limited, not at all,
nor any other vulkan or DX 12 game...
you can check cpu usage on marakesh on Hitman 1 or 2 eg or Mumbai. reason you had same fps is that your gpu is weak and cpu can drive it without trying hard...
2080ti bottlenecked on marakesh with 9900.
as for ACO its cpu hungry because its dx12. Had it been dx12 it wouldnt be an issue.

Nope. An RTX 2060 Super. But that's beside the point. The LOD setting on Hitman IS demanding. And because it uses CPU, NOT GPU. GPUs determine the quality of detail. How much detail is actually rendered on screen at once, in the distance, usually uses CPU processing power.

That's why I get the same FPS regardless of my GPU, but turning down the setting increases my FPS because my CPU isn't that powerful (it's a 6th generation i5 Skylake). I tested it after playing it with my GTX 970, and then the RTX 2060 Super. LOD Ultra drops frames regardless of all my other settings (except maybe the ultra shadows which also drops frames due to being rendered in further distances).

[gpolg]

the fact that you were gpu limited and had same fps says nothing overall, only that your cpu can drive your gpu to 100% without much effort. ill link you a benchmark with hi end card sec,

here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twxe7dNWeKE

its clear dx12 utilizes cpu much better > gains

and that guy has several thousand hrs on hitman 2, so he knows the ins and outs of it.

[gpolg]

and heres a good read about ACO https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/1793848-Only-DX12-can-solve-the-high-CPU-usage-problem/page3

[Iggy Wolf]

Originally posted by gpolig:

and heres a good read about ACO https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/1793848-Only-DX12-can-solve-the-high-CPU-usage-problem/page3

*sighs* This is all irrelevant though, isn't it? Because the argument isn't about whether DX11 is better than DX12 or vice versa. I don't have high CPU usage on RDR2. I have crashes due to the APIs (Vulkan and DX12). Vulkan seems to have crashes related to its files in the settings folder, which seems to suggest issues with the code, not that necessarily Vulkan is bad. I KNOW it's good. I've played DOOM 2016 with it with no issues.

I also play Hitman 2 with DX12 with no issues or crashes. But I do feel that the absence of DX11 in this game means that people can't switch to a more stable API. Whether DX12 is good performance wise or not is irrelevant, because clearly THIS game has issues running it without crashes. That speaks to poor optimization on Rockstar's part (or poor implementation of DX12 in this game), NOT that DX12 as an API is poor. RE2 Remake gave the option to use both (DX11 and 12), as did Hitman. It's the LACK of the option here that is the problem.

[_Atr4Mør5]

Originally posted by Iggy Wolf:

Originally posted by gpolig:

and heres a good read about ACO https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/1793848-Only-DX12-can-solve-the-high-CPU-usage-problem/page3

*sighs* This is all irrelevant though, isn't it? Because the argument isn't about whether DX11 is better than DX12 or vice versa. I don't have high CPU usage on RDR2. I have crashes due to the APIs (Vulkan and DX12). Vulkan seems to have crashes related to its files in the settings folder, which seems to suggest issues with the code, not that necessarily Vulkan is bad. I KNOW it's good. I've played DOOM 2016 with it with no issues.

I also play Hitman 2 with DX12 with no issues or crashes. But I do feel that the absence of DX11 in this game means that people can't switch to a more stable API. Whether DX12 is good performance wise or not is irrelevant, because clearly THIS game has issues running it without crashes. That speaks to poor optimization on Rockstar's part (or poor implementation of DX12 in this game), NOT that DX12 as an API is poor. RE2 Remake gave the option to use both (DX11 and 12), as did Hitman. It's the LACK of the option here that is the problem.

Do you tried use last version of Win10 and launch argument -cpuLoadRebalancing?