Bard bug?

[Uryxia]

So I've been curious how Bard plays in the pixel remaster since the NES version and the 3D version were so different, and it seems like they completely changed Bard again! With Paeon it was pretty useful as an all-purpose healer and its attacks weren't actually terrible, so I was pleased at first.

This is where things go wrong: at job level 10, my Bard learned the song Minuet, which increases strength and intellect of the party, which is great! At job level 11, my Bard suddenly only had Paeon again, Minuet was gone.

TLDR: Bard learns songs and then almost immediately forgets them...

Edit: Just did a little more science, got Bard to job level 20 and learned Elegy. I tried a bunch of different things and he forgot Elegy at some point, so I reloaded a save from after he'd learned Elegy and before he'd forgotten it and now he doesn't seem to be forgetting it anymore. My advice: when your Bard learns a new song, save as soon as possible, then quit out and reload your save, this seems to be the surest way of holding onto it! I don't know if Quicksaving works, but I'd be interested in finding out!

Edit 2: Mystery solved at last! The Bard didn't "forget" the song, I accidentally gave the song to another character by using the "Exchange" command on the magic menu! Songs are treated the same as magic, except you can't see them on the menu (and therefore it's impossible to directly interact with them in that menu). As a result, if you have a Bard, do NOT Exchange magic with them or you'll get into a situation like I'm in where my Bard knows 3 songs and some other random party member knows the other (as far as I'm aware, there's no way to consolidate this, the only way to get one character knowing all songs at this point would be to get another person to level Bard to job level 30)

TLDR 2: If you have a Bard, do NOT Exchange magic with them!

[BrawlyLikesToBrawl]

whoa so now the jobs play different too? just how extensive are the changes in this game?

[unsynchronized29]

Yeah I'm waiting for a list to pop up detailing the changes to the jobs. I've only ever played the patched NES rom approximately three thousand years ago but I do remember bards being garbage. I would love to use them now.

[Reiska]

In the DS version the songs were based on your equipped harp; check if this is the case for this version as well.

[Uryxia]

Originally posted by Reiska:

In the DS version the songs were based on your equipped harp; check if this is the case for this version as well.

That is not the case, changing your equipped harp has no effect on the songs your Bard can use (I checked this first)

[Ostarion]

Yeah depending on how good the higher level songs are, and if there is a work around until the bug is fixed, might actually be good at end game over just a pure white wizard/shaman/Devout.

[UmbreonMessiah]

Originally posted by Ostarion:

Yeah depending on how good the higher level songs are, and if there is a work around until the bug is fixed, might actually be good at end game over just a pure white wizard/shaman/Devout.

Given that this game is based on the original, I hate to inform you that those jobs likely won't be valid at end game anyway.

[Jeftah]

IIRC NES bards only ever had the "cheer" command which basically improved the party's physical attack power.

Yeah bards were... niche, but if you were running 3x physical attackers the damage increase was noticeable and it stacked, so you could spam it all day.

They phase out rather quickly when you get the better jobs like Evoker and such.

The DS version bards were broken and possibly the best class in the game.

[Uryxia]

Originally posted by Jeftah:

IIRC NES bards only ever had the "cheer" command which basically improved the party's physical attack power.

Yeah bards were... niche, but if you were running 3x physical attackers the damage increase was noticeable and it stacked, so you could spam it all day.

They phase out rather quickly when you get the better jobs like Evoker and such.

The DS version bards were broken and possibly the best class in the game.

I'd dare say Bard is even better now than it was in the DS version for the simple reason that it learns songs and you can use them at will without changing weapons! It's DEFINITELY different from how it was in any previous version

[Ostarion]

Yes, I got the bard to job 30, elegy decreases the damage you take from monsters, requiem does random status effects on all monsters. The healing from Paeon seems to scale somewhat on job level using 10% of the max hp of each character as a base. I wonder if there is only one more song like the DS version, or if there will be even more songs every 10 job levels.

[Uryxia]

Originally posted by Ostarion:

Yes, I got the bard to job 30, elegy decreases the damage you take from monsters, requiem does random status effects on all monsters. The healing from Paeon seems to scale somewhat on job level using 10% of the max hp of each character as a base. I wonder if there is only one more song like the DS version, or if there will be even more songs every 10 job levels.

Well, since writing this post I got Bard to job level 99, and unfortunately it only has the four songs: Paeon, Minuet, Elegy, and Requiem, so you know all available songs by job level 30

[Ostarion]

Paeon's Scaling is clear, do you know how Minuet and Elegy scale?

[Uryxia]

Originally posted by Ostarion:

Paeon's Scaling is clear, do you know how Minuet and Elegy scale?

Unfortunately, I didn't get enough time with Minuet to test it (due to the bug that prompted me to open this thread in the first place), and testing Elegy would've been more work than I was willing to put into a casual run. I might take a closer and more scientific approach someday, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

[dana]

I think I figured out how you forgot the song, if you use "Exchange" in the magic menu with your bard, the unlocked song will disappear, you can get it back by doing it again, since the songs aren't magic it's impossible to see who has the songs. my advice is do not use "Exchange" if you have a bard in your party

Edit: Since what i think is happening is that the game recognises the songs as hidden "magic abilities" so the songs you learn get moved over to whoever you exchange with. if you make that party member a bard you could realistically have a level 1 bard know all the songs assuming you already had a bard levelled up (although they would end up losing all their songs after exchanging them)

[Blind]

ya, the "exchange" magic bug with bardsong is really weird

[Uryxia]

Originally posted by dana:

I think I figured out how you forgot the song, if you use "Exchange" in the magic menu with your bard, the unlocked song will disappear, you can get it back by doing it again, since the songs aren't magic it's impossible to see who has the songs. my advice is do not use "Exchange" if you have a bard in your party

Edit: Since what i think is happening is that the game recognises the songs as hidden "magic abilities" so the songs you learn get moved over to whoever you exchange with. if you make that party member a bard you could realistically have a level 1 bard know all the songs assuming you already had a bard levelled up (although they would end up losing all their songs after exchanging them)

You might actually be completely right about this, come to think of it! I might have to do a little experimentation later, but thanks so much for the suggestion, that's honestly something that didn't occur to me!