Mandatory PVP will hurt this game, thats just the facts, it might not kill it right away but it will hurt it.

[Iron Mal]

Before you jump down my throat, I agree with a lot of you. PVP makes a lot of games more fun to play, it adds higher stakes to the game and keeps you on your toes. Hell, I'd even say that it may make you a better player in general because you'll learn.

Here's the reality though, many of you; not all but many and if you're honest with yourself you know I'm right; are not mature enough for a full PVP game.

I've been playing MMOs all my life, from RS to Rappelz to Maplestory to WoW, SWG, 9Dragons, GW 1/2, LOTRO, COH, etc.. That list could go on forever, MMO players hop around a lot I know many of you do the same so I know you'll know what i mean when I say that a lot of these guys really pushing for the PVP stuff in MMOs are just going to do what people used to do in a lot of those older MMOs we played. You know when the max level guys would sit outside the safe zone towns and just pick off players under level 10?

You can call people babies, you can tell them to get gud, you can call them whiners all you want the reality is that that kind of behavior in MMOs is bad for business which means it's bad for us if we want to play the game and it's bad for the player count because what ends up happening is the general public just straight up abandons the game. PVP players are probably not even 20% of the general MMO playing public so day one, week one, year one the numbers are okayish but after that they have a sharp decline, it happens all the time and thats when the public has taken their collective ball and gone home.

Some of you would be cool and fight fair and wouldnt just continuously grief players and you know what, if that sounds like you, good on you man, you're a bro but you're not the majority.

The sad reality is the reason why PVP is optional in most MMOs is because of that fact right there, it kills the player count because people ♥♥♥♥ with the general guys too much and they leave which means less money for the company and before you know it everyones in the steam forums going "+1 BRING THE GAME BACK!! PLEASE!!" but by then it's too late.

Like I said you can think Im wrong but if you do and this game does have mandatory PVP, please be sure to leave a comment and I'll see you back here in a couple years when the "Thanks for playing!" message pops up on their twitter page.

[PortalShifter]

Nguyên văn bởi Shotgun:

The games I'm talking about are more along the lines of old-school Ultima and EVE Online, and classic survival games like DayZ during its first few years. Such games don't get made anymore, even though there's demand for them, because massive social pressure to change their PvP-centric core gameplay is present in every single one.

There is a small demand for them. Not enough demand for those type of games to be produced. The ones that have been produced in recent years, like the games I mentioned, have all sold badly and quickly lose their playerbase.

[Sir Víve]

Nguyên văn bởi Zephos:

personally i like pvp in games like conan/ark hell i used to play the the hll out of it...but pvp in generral is just to toxic..like the op said there's always going to be assbuts standing outside starter towns just to ♥♥♥♥ with low lvls...the ones that do that are the same ones that will cry and whine when another high player comes and kills them for being a ♥♥♥♥..trust me iv seen it enough..pvp can be good but it has to be done right

The ones that do that are really the ones in here begging for PvP toggle and PvE servers. They do it specifically to prove a point. If you thought it was PvP players that are toxic, you were wrong.

Also, there are many things you can do to counter that in game design. I've seen many good ideas in other alphass and betas, but of course they caved to the "optional" PvP, killing all player freedom and imposing a PvE rulset and progression on everyone. I still show respects to New World alpha with so much potential. RiP Patrick Gilmore!

[Shotgun]

Nguyên văn bởi PortalShifter:

Nguyên văn bởi Shotgun:

The games I'm talking about are more along the lines of old-school Ultima and EVE Online, and classic survival games like DayZ during its first few years. Such games don't get made anymore, even though there's demand for them, because massive social pressure to change their PvP-centric core gameplay is present in every single one.

There is a small demand for them. Not enough demand for those type of games to be produced. The ones that have been produced in recent years, like the games I mentioned, have all sold badly and quickly lose their playerbase.

The games you mentioned aren't like the games I'm referring to, with the exception of Mortal.

Yes, there is demand for these games. Do you think I'm one of like ten people in the entire world who want them? There's hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of players out there who share my desire. It's a small portion of the total game-playing demographic, yes, but it's enough to sustain a sizable selection of hardcore PvP titles.

The problem is that whenever someone tries to make such a title, it invariably gets infiltrated by players who just want to grind PvE, and then they start whining and complaining on the forums for the developers to soften the game for them (instead of avoiding that game right from the beginning, since it wasn't made for them). Then the devs comply because of the perception of financial pressure, and the game becomes broken because it tries to do two very different things at the same time. Those games therefore fail because they are bad games and not because they are hardcore PvP games.

[Danyel]

Lol at peeps singing the virtues of honorable pvpers...tis gonna be a "durhur git gud" gank fest more than likely. Oh well one less to pay and play on my list.

I used to play pvp games but like OP says most pvp mmo are just not looking for fun and are more looking to grief.

[Kevin7557]

Nguyên văn bởi LvGamer:

What will kill it is the cheaters.

Cheaters and logging back in to discover that your base was wiped out while you went to work, slept, or had anything else to do. All the resources you gathered were wiped out. Take a break from the game? Sandstorm.

What's going to happen to Dune Awakening is the same thing that happened to Nightingale. A lukewarm launch, followed by the publisher allowing the developer who guaranteed has been warning them this isn't going to go well, to start implementing offline and single player / co-op content.

[Sir Víve]

Nguyên văn bởi Danyel:

Lol at peeps singing the virtues of honorable pvpers...tis gonna be a "durhur git gud" gank fest more than likely. Oh well one less to pay and play on my list.

I used to play pvp games but like OP says most pvp mmo are just not looking for fun and are more looking to grief.

and most PvE survivals are boring building simulators where you might as well be playing creative Lego building blocks

[Delta Dagger]

Nguyên văn bởi Krynnost:

Guess I'm old reading the comments of what defines an MMO in terms of player count. MMO is a decades old term to describe a game that has lots of players. To be fair, a few dozen isn't exactly a lot anymore. Any of us that had Pentium 133mhz builds with an extra phone line... well, over 8 players was a bunch 😆

I hear you.

Genres no longer mean jack.

[Gazeral]

If I have to play Pvp than I'm out. Should be Pve with areas you can go with Pvp. The world sounds harsh enough let alone needing to worry about someone killing me.

[Jack]

Nguyên văn bởi Iron Mal:

Before you jump down my throat, I agree with a lot of you. PVP makes a lot of games more fun to play, it adds higher stakes to the game and keeps you on your toes. Hell, I'd even say that it may make you a better player in general because you'll learn.

Here's the reality though, many of you; not all but many and if you're honest with yourself you know I'm right; are not mature enough for a full PVP game.

I've been playing MMOs all my life, from RS to Rappelz to Maplestory to WoW, SWG, 9Dragons, GW 1/2, LOTRO, COH, etc.. That list could go on forever, MMO players hop around a lot I know many of you do the same so I know you'll know what i mean when I say that a lot of these guys really pushing for the PVP stuff in MMOs are just going to do what people used to do in a lot of those older MMOs we played. You know when the max level guys would sit outside the safe zone towns and just pick off players under level 10?

You can call people babies, you can tell them to get gud, you can call them whiners all you want the reality is that that kind of behavior in MMOs is bad for business which means it's bad for us if we want to play the game and it's bad for the player count because what ends up happening is the general public just straight up abandons the game. PVP players are probably not even 20% of the general MMO playing public so day one, week one, year one the numbers are okayish but after that they have a sharp decline, it happens all the time and thats when the public has taken their collective ball and gone home.

Some of you would be cool and fight fair and wouldnt just continuously grief players and you know what, if that sounds like you, good on you man, you're a bro but you're not the majority.

The sad reality is the reason why PVP is optional in most MMOs is because of that fact right there, it kills the player count because people ♥♥♥♥ with the general guys too much and they leave which means less money for the company and before you know it everyones in the steam forums going "+1 BRING THE GAME BACK!! PLEASE!!" but by then it's too late.

Like I said you can think Im wrong but if you do and this game does have mandatory PVP, please be sure to leave a comment and I'll see you back here in a couple years when the "Thanks for playing!" message pops up on their twitter page.

Your not going far enugh back if your thinking of a "classic" sandbox mmo.

Your specialization becomes your endgame and trade in the real originals.

Might it be the master crafter or Risk Transport Service Co.

Not everyone was Born Pro soliders, with master crafts in a world of money pinjatas. And if a true classic, the game will respect that.

PvP don't have to be KD ratio and scoreboards.

Take Eve Online (not that I would push anyone towards spreadsheet space combat.) you can avoid 99% of "ganks" with skills (skilltree), experience, and simply avoiding to be a high value target.
PvP is everywhere but the chance of anyone attacking your rust bucket in High Sec is slim to non, as they will lose their ship and get a bounty to their name.

And you will get revarded for it.

I get where your coming from though, modern Mmo PvP have beeen made by bonehead slayer devs that never gave any penalty or risk to the ganker for unsucsessful attempts, so it allways favors the PvP pro.

While the PvE'r are supposed to chase the bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow, If anyone haven't learned that it's a trap on the internet yet, welcome!
Dumbest bloody system of calling the sheep to the pray ever! And they keep doing it.
Same result every time, dead PvP zone.

All I'm trying to say is that I'm ok with PvP if you give me the tools to avoid it and revard the behavior.

[Legys]

Please, go play FF14. I was waiting for a PvP oriented MMO with social elements and less grind to level up for years.

[Ashar]

im glad its not forcing pvp on us. many times ive just wanted to play a game only to be disrupted by ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and the only thing to do was stop playing and play again later. forcing me to stop playing due to unwanted pvp seems a stupid way to implement pvp.

[PortalShifter]

Nguyên văn bởi Sir Víve:

Nguyên văn bởi Danyel:

Lol at peeps singing the virtues of honorable pvpers...tis gonna be a "durhur git gud" gank fest more than likely. Oh well one less to pay and play on my list.

I used to play pvp games but like OP says most pvp mmo are just not looking for fun and are more looking to grief.

and most PvE survivals are boring building simulators where you might as well be playing creative Lego building blocks

I'd rather spend 100 hours playing a "boring building simulator" than 1 hour of a PVP game with cheaters using aimbots and wallhack cheats to boost their sad e-peens.

[Rincewind]

Rip worlds adrift.

[Iron Mal]

Nguyên văn bởi Jack:

Nguyên văn bởi Iron Mal:

Before you jump down my throat, I agree with a lot of you. PVP makes a lot of games more fun to play, it adds higher stakes to the game and keeps you on your toes. Hell, I'd even say that it may make you a better player in general because you'll learn.

Here's the reality though, many of you; not all but many and if you're honest with yourself you know I'm right; are not mature enough for a full PVP game.

I've been playing MMOs all my life, from RS to Rappelz to Maplestory to WoW, SWG, 9Dragons, GW 1/2, LOTRO, COH, etc.. That list could go on forever, MMO players hop around a lot I know many of you do the same so I know you'll know what i mean when I say that a lot of these guys really pushing for the PVP stuff in MMOs are just going to do what people used to do in a lot of those older MMOs we played. You know when the max level guys would sit outside the safe zone towns and just pick off players under level 10?

You can call people babies, you can tell them to get gud, you can call them whiners all you want the reality is that that kind of behavior in MMOs is bad for business which means it's bad for us if we want to play the game and it's bad for the player count because what ends up happening is the general public just straight up abandons the game. PVP players are probably not even 20% of the general MMO playing public so day one, week one, year one the numbers are okayish but after that they have a sharp decline, it happens all the time and thats when the public has taken their collective ball and gone home.

Some of you would be cool and fight fair and wouldnt just continuously grief players and you know what, if that sounds like you, good on you man, you're a bro but you're not the majority.

The sad reality is the reason why PVP is optional in most MMOs is because of that fact right there, it kills the player count because people ♥♥♥♥ with the general guys too much and they leave which means less money for the company and before you know it everyones in the steam forums going "+1 BRING THE GAME BACK!! PLEASE!!" but by then it's too late.

Like I said you can think Im wrong but if you do and this game does have mandatory PVP, please be sure to leave a comment and I'll see you back here in a couple years when the "Thanks for playing!" message pops up on their twitter page.

Your not going far enugh back if your thinking of a "classic" sandbox mmo.

Your specialization becomes your endgame and trade in the real originals.

Might it be the master crafter or Risk Transport Service Co.

Not everyone was Born Pro soliders, with master crafts in a world of money pinjatas. And if a true classic, the game will respect that.

PvP don't have to be KD ratio and scoreboards.

Take Eve Online (not that I would push anyone towards spreadsheet space combat.) you can avoid 99% of "ganks" with skills (skilltree), experience, and simply avoiding to be a high value target.
PvP is everywhere but the chance of anyone attacking your rust bucket in High Sec is slim to non, as they will lose their ship and get a bounty to their name.

And you will get revarded for it.

I get where your coming from though, modern Mmo PvP have beeen made by bonehead slayer devs that never gave any penalty or risk to the ganker for unsucsessful attempts, so it allways favors the PvP pro.

While the PvE'r are supposed to chase the bucket of gold at the end of the rainbow, If anyone haven't learned that it's a trap on the internet yet, welcome!
Dumbest bloody system of calling the sheep to the pray ever! And they keep doing it.
Same result every time, dead PvP zone.

All I'm trying to say is that I'm ok with PvP if you give me the tools to avoid it and revard the behavior.

SWG was like that, and i played that game for ages. My point still stands though, PVP is great, i love it, i just think a lot of people will make it hell whether that be by just immature ♥♥♥♥ like ganking people over and over or cheating and that'll cost 90% of the player base to leave within the first year of it's release.

[Mick Savage]

It's setup like Rust, the community will be just as bad.