Have you heard the tragedy of...the lightsaber.

[Metal]

Smashing the bosses over and over with a light saber was a bizarre design move given the reverence around the powerful weapon. I've heard the arguments why they didn't have decapitation and it was bs. Something about how you only see decapitation in Star Wars when it serves the plot.
You don't see Storm troopers getting chopped to bits all the time.

However, you also don't see a Jedi pound away on an important plot character for 10 mins with just heat scars to show for it.

I thought I'd share this with anyone who hasn't see it haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwEMDtwQivE

It was a fun game tho and had its 'whoa cool' moments.

[droggen]

Yea they didn't want the game to get an M rating because you know the loss of sales figures, That said I do find it funny that the majority of star wars fans are in fact full grown adults so it's kind of silly that by choosing to tone down blood,dismemberment they get more money but also insult the majority of the fan base willing to spend top price for said game.

This message brought to you by the CDPR gang.

[EbonHawk]

But how "gruesome" would it have been? It's Star Wars. A few disconnected appendages with glowy-yellowish-red ends.. I was watching, reading, playing worse when I was 10 years old. Pffft!! :-P

Oh wait, forgot what decade we're in... Great time for games, sad time for content. :-(

[Marsquatch]

Baseball bat lightsabers aren't great, but I see why SW games keep doing that. Trying to balance a game where everything dies in one hit would be almost impossible, especially when it comes to boss fight.

If you make the enemies insanely good at blocking to compensate for the OHKOs the game becomes frustrating and difficult as ♥♥♥♥. If you don't do that it becomes a mind-numbingly easy snoozefest where the combat mechanics don't even matter because you're just slapping everything down before they can fight back.

Dismemberment should definitely have been a part of the game though.

[Skcarkden]

I like how this game is meant to exist between prequel trilogy and original trilogy while using BS lightsaber proof weapons from new trilogy...

How's the story logic meant to go.. "we had all these weapons and special training facilities ro fight Jedi and overall be tough... but let's eradicate it all at some point before Luke Skywalker shows up and bring it back decades later!" ?

Also yeah, the argument for no dismemberment is crap... Obi Wan chopping a dudes hand off with his saber didn't soften the impact the movies had when Luke had his hand cut off... it's context. No one's gonna care about some unnamed faceless Storm Trooper losing his hand, but give a specific Trooper more involvement than just "be here and die soon" and if he loses a hand it would have an elevated impact as that specific character becomes more relevant. It's not the act of dismembering anyone and anything, it's who.

[Baron01]

@OP
So how exactly would you make a game in a universe where lightsabers exist? Because if you suggest that anything that is touched by a lightsaber should die would mean that the game would not be ...you know... fun.

There are some lore explanation that I read on this topic that suggest that force attuned individuals can absorb energy from lightsabers to certain degree, which could mean that powerful enemies/bosses can actually withstand multiple hits from a lightsaber. I'm not a Star Wars buff so I can not tell if such explanation is cannon or not but I equally do not care. The game was a standard action game / hack&slash, which means it comes with its tropes such as boss fights with health meters that you whittle down slowly.

[the-kingslayer]

I would recommend suspense of disbelief as a remedy for this oh so terrible problem.
How do you actually play any videogame out there, if this is already killing it? No shooters, because you survive more than one bullet. No RPGs, because people don't have hit points. Etc, etc.
Also, why is it an insult to star wars fans, that there is no dismemberment? Oo Did the OT insult you as well, because I don't remember dismemberment left and right in those movies. Just a few select scenes.

[Mesond]

Originally posted by droggen:

Yea they didn't want the game to get an M rating because you know the loss of sales figures,

That's an excuse. Plenty of games have an M rating and become GAME OF THE YEAR. Heck, just look at games like the Witcher. And that even has heavy implications of sex.

I can list COUNTLESS M games that sell BETTER then this game. So if "It's because of M" is your argument then I have countless proof defeating that argument. Maybe the devs wanted younger people to enjoy the game as well (which I can understand), but that is another argument. I am addressing the argument of using the M label as an argument to state the game wouldn't sell well. Which is already proven to be invalid because of other games being M rated and selling BETTER.

The truth is people FEAR a game won't sell well because of mature content. But it's hogwash. If the game itself is GOOD and has GREAT things in it (this game is good but falls short of greatness for various reasons. No post game content seems to be the biggest flaw) then it doesn't matter if it's an M game or not. It WILL sell well provided the game itself excels at what it does. What's more I'm sure PLENTY of people would be MORE WILLING to buy and enjoy the game if they COULD chop off limbs. We had fun doing that in Jedi Knight 2 after all. The low sales of the game aren't because of not being able to cut off limbs though. It's other reasons like not being able to enjoy good fights in late/post game. Mobs becoming too easy. Less force powers then in JK2. etc, etc. The potential is there but falls a bit short. The good news is that potential might be tapped into in the next game (or perhaps DLC). It's the first game like this within the company so I'm not too disappointed since 1: It is EA and they could have done worse (all things considered this game is decent) and 2: The lack of experience in making a game like this, and this being the first one within the company means some mistakes or oversights can be overlooked, within reason. This game falls "within reason". Unlike, say, other bad EA games that had much larger flaws.

I suspect the sales would remain the same either way though. Unless the game got too graphical and spurted blood when limb cutting happened (JK2 didn't show blood gushing out which made it "more acceptable". And hence why no one complained about it). ALSO, JK2 is rated T for TEEN. So this alone proves you can have limb removal in THIS game and STILL have it rated T since it's been done in past star wars games already. Though if I remember correctly you had to enable the option in JK2 with a console command. Since it wasn't the "default" option maybe that's why it kept the T label. But this only brings up the question of why we can't do this in Fallen Order. To turn "on" such options ourselves when the default state is "off".

Thinking about it games these days tend to lack console menus altogether. Remember when players could mess around with more things and make their own fun in older games with console commands? I kind of miss that. And not just with limbs. I remember adding like 50 stormtroopers in Dark Forces 2. XD

[Griever]

Originally posted by droggen:

Yea they didn't want the game to get an M rating because you know the loss of sales figures,

The thing that I find even more ridiculous is how those ratings are done.
Dismemberment? M rating.
Almost anything else including some shocking stuff? Fine.

I just don't understand why all of the sudden dismemberment is M rated tbh.

[Mesond]

Originally posted by DevilTrigger600:

Originally posted by droggen:

Yea they didn't want the game to get an M rating because you know the loss of sales figures,

The thing that I find even more ridiculous is how those ratings are done.
Dismemberment? M rating.
Almost anything else including some shocking stuff? Fine.

I just don't understand why all of the sudden dismemberment is M rated tbh.

Don't forget the cold blooded killing as you run someone through with a lightsaber right in their chest before pushing them off a cliff. On a daily bases. Or long torture scenes where someone is reduced to insanity and turned into a babbling mess as they're converted to the dark side (in other games/movies if not this one). Which leaves deep psychological scars for life. Much worse then losing a limb I'd say.

It is pretty messed up in that light. How did the old Star Wars films avoid an M label when Luke is being slowly roasted by lightning again? I can handle blood and I can even handle seeing slow torture scenes (and enjoy it). But comparing both together I would say the thing that scars your mind for life is the worse of the two. And this is the kind of thing sith are shown to do over and over in Star Wars. So... Yea. That. It's good, it's good entertainment, it reminds us of being human and not to shy away from harsh things, but that's sure as hell M stuff to me.

[SakenSoul]

Video made me laugh. Thanks

[Metal]

Originally posted by EbonHawk:

But how "gruesome" would it have been? It's Star Wars. A few disconnected appendages with glowy-yellowish-red ends.. I was watching, reading, playing worse when I was 10 years old. Pffft!! :-P

Oh wait, forgot what decade we're in... Great time for games, sad time for content. :-(

Yea I remember playing Solider of Fortune when I was way too young for it. I'll always remember the first time I shotgunned a guys leg off and he lays there SCREAMING. It was in a bathroom and the blood was everywhere contrasted against the white tile.
You might think, whoa that's crazy violent dismemberment. Why would the devs make a game like that? Because that's what would happen if you shot someone's leg at close range with a shotgun. No my parent didn't know what I was playing.

Originally posted by the-kingslayer:

I would recommend suspense of disbelief as a remedy for this oh so terrible problem.
How do you actually play any videogame out there, if this is already killing it? No shooters, because you survive more than one bullet. No RPGs, because people don't have hit points. Etc, etc.
Also, why is it an insult to star wars fans, that there is no dismemberment? Oo Did the OT insult you as well, because I don't remember dismemberment left and right in those movies. Just a few select scenes.

Lightsabers were shown to be lethal weapons, like a shotgun at close range, so I find it hard to suspend disbelief.
Shooters? I play Arma 3 and is semi realistic. BTW '50 cent' took 9 bullets point blank and lived.
RPGS? People have a range of health from good to bad, and hit/health points are a way to realize that concept.

I'm not insulted as a fan, I'm just disappointed the lightsaber got nerfed. Not sure what "OT" refers to. Did you mean GOT? If so, ask Theon or Ned. I do appreciate the comment tho :)

[Flannaz]

Originally posted by Taramafor:

Originally posted by droggen:

Yea they didn't want the game to get an M rating because you know the loss of sales figures,

That's an excuse. Plenty of games have an M rating and become GAME OF THE YEAR. Heck, just look at games like the Witcher. And that even has heavy implications of sex.

I can list COUNTLESS M games that sell BETTER then this game. So if "It's because of M" is your argument then I have countless proof defeating that argument. Maybe the devs wanted younger people to enjoy the game as well (which I can understand), but that is another argument. I am addressing the argument of using the M label as an argument to state the game wouldn't sell well. Which is already proven to be invalid because of other games being M rated and selling BETTER.

The truth is people FEAR a game won't sell well because of mature content. But it's hogwash. If the game itself is GOOD and has GREAT things in it (this game is good but falls short of greatness for various reasons. No post game content seems to be the biggest flaw) then it doesn't matter if it's an M game or not. It WILL sell well provided the game itself excels at what it does. What's more I'm sure PLENTY of people would be MORE WILLING to buy and enjoy the game if they COULD chop off limbs. We had fun doing that in Jedi Knight 2 after all. The low sales of the game aren't because of not being able to cut off limbs though. It's other reasons like not being able to enjoy good fights in late/post game. Mobs becoming too easy. Less force powers then in JK2. etc, etc. The potential is there but falls a bit short. The good news is that potential might be tapped into in the next game (or perhaps DLC). It's the first game like this within the company so I'm not too disappointed since 1: It is EA and they could have done worse (all things considered this game is decent) and 2: The lack of experience in making a game like this, and this being the first one within the company means some mistakes or oversights can be overlooked, within reason. This game falls "within reason". Unlike, say, other bad EA games that had much larger flaws.

I suspect the sales would remain the same either way though. Unless the game got too graphical and spurted blood when limb cutting happened (JK2 didn't show blood gushing out which made it "more acceptable". And hence why no one complained about it). ALSO, JK2 is rated T for TEEN. So this alone proves you can have limb removal in THIS game and STILL have it rated T since it's been done in past star wars games already. Though if I remember correctly you had to enable the option in JK2 with a console command. Since it wasn't the "default" option maybe that's why it kept the T label. But this only brings up the question of why we can't do this in Fallen Order. To turn "on" such options ourselves when the default state is "off".

Thinking about it games these days tend to lack console menus altogether. Remember when players could mess around with more things and make their own fun in older games with console commands? I kind of miss that. And not just with limbs. I remember adding like 50 stormtroopers in Dark Forces 2. XD

it's a disney game though essentially, they want young adults to play this game

[the-kingslayer]

Originally posted by quicKmEtaL:

I'm not insulted as a fan, I'm just disappointed the lightsaber got nerfed. Not sure what "OT" refers to. Did you mean GOT? If so, ask Theon or Ned. I do appreciate the comment tho :)

OT refers to the Original Trilogy.
That kind of lightsaber "nerf" has been a necessity in SW games since, well, forever. It already was there in Jedi Knight, which to me still stands out as the best SW games series when it comes down to action.
Yeah, might be that a shot is definitely survivable, but keeping up fighting condition after being shot even once is a different story.
I mean, I can get behind the fact, that such things can get a bit immersion breaking, but what usually aggravates me is the fact that people start talking about design choices for games as personal insults against them from the developers.
I just can't imagi that somewhere in the development process someone said "let's not do dismemberment or one hit kills for everything, because that will really piss our target audience off and that's what we make games for". That kind of hyperbole just ticks me off. XD